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Posted:
Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:41 pmby windhorse
For the first time during a show this July 15th I'll be playing clave and singing to Guaguanco. I've learned the songs and have been playing clave all along, but a friend of mine a few days ago was telling me that I was going back and forth between Son Clave and Rumba Clave. So, I created a clave chart to place the syllabels exactly where they go in relation to the clave. I had to do this visual thing to get it just right.
Here's the Clave Vocals Scripting Document That I made. Obviously, you guys are welcome to download it for uses any time.
Here are the vocals in order for the show:
Vocals for the Dreamtime Show
If you scroll down to Guaguanco, you'll see the two songs we have to sing. And, here's how they look when written out on the timing sheet:
Obatala
Obatala2
O Inle
I didn't have the benefit of years and years of immersion in the culture as some have had, so had to come up with some method of cheating to get the songs.
Has anyone ever done this method or something like it?
Posted:
Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:41 pmby davidpenalosa
Hi Windhorse,
I noticed that you are singing Orisha songs and no actual rumba songs. I've done a similar thing with Orisha songs and clave in the past. I think it helps people learn how the songs fit.
I don't see how this helps you to play rumba clave instead of son clave though. I think you just need to play rumba clave more. My guess is that you are not practicing clave with the beat. That pesky third stroke of rumba clave has the same relationship to the beat as the second stroke (bombo) and I'm sure you are playing that second stroke fine.
|XooXoooXooXoXooo| hand (clave)
|XoooXoooXoooXooo| foot (beat)
If you walk around town discretely tapping rumba clave with your hand you will internalize it. I've found that using the steady beat of walking is way better than sitting and tapping my foot.
-David
Posted:
Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pmby windhorse
Yes, I don't know why, but we elected to keep it all Lukumi, and stay away from Spanish this time.
Yes, good point David, and something that I do.
But, the trouble can occur when you associate a syllable, let's say that occurs right after the bomba and you tend to stick that third strike onto the syllable. The problem for me isn't that clave isn't ingrained.. It's that I have vocal and hand separation problems. Gotta have the visual to practice it right.
Another thing I was shown is along the lines of your suggestion, where you rock from foot to foot on the downbeats while playing clave. Again, it's really singing while playing. Not the playing.
Edited By windhorse on 1151777838
Posted:
Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:10 pmby davidpenalosa
windhorse wrote:it's really singing while playing. Not the playing.
But then, why do you default to son clave? I hear you that the problem lies with combining singing and playing. From what I'm reading though, I think the source of your problem is that son clave comes more natural than rumba clave. Am I right about that? In other words, you would not have a problem singing the song to son clave. Correct?
Posted:
Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:15 pmby windhorse
Well, in this case some of the syllabic lines are exactly son clave.. Try vocalizing Son Clave while playing Rumba Clave. Now how automatic is your striking of rumba clave as you vocalize son clave? Pretty tough wouldn't you say? It's really hard to play something your mouth vocalizes rhythmically in a different spot. And especially when it's in the spot of an alternate rhythm. That's why I had to make a cheat sheet.
I can play Rumba clave quite easily. And in fact it feels easier to me than son clave. I played with some Africans a few months ago, and had to hold son clave through a song, and really had a difficult time. I kept stretching that third strike. So, really, I don't think it's a tendency towards Son clave.
Posted:
Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:15 amby davidpenalosa
windhorse wrote:Well, in this case some of the syllabic lines are exactly son clave..
OK, I get it. Thanks for explaining it to me Windhorse.
-David
Posted:
Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:41 amby windhorse
No worries,,,, How do you feel about not having the Humboldt AfroCuban camp this year? At least we get this discourse eh?
Call me Dave 
Posted:
Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 amby davidpenalosa
windhorse wrote:1
How do you feel about not having the Humboldt AfroCuban camp this year?
2.
At least we get this discourse eh?
3.
Call me Dave
1.
Actually, I'm thrilled that my eight year old son and I get to go to the international comic book convention in San Diego this year instead. The convention happens every year during the same week, so this is our one chance to go. Of course I'm looking forward to seeing everyone next year and happy for the work as well.
2.
Absolutely!
3.
And reveal your secret identity?!! 
Edited By davidpenalosa on 1151830925
Posted:
Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 amby Charangaman
windhorse wrote:I can play Rumba clave quite easily. And in fact it feels easier to me than son clave.
Me too, it feels more natural to me.. Son clave is so rigid, also 3 - 2 feels easier than 2 - 3. ???
Posted:
Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:35 pmby windhorse
I learned 3-2 and 2-3 separately, and like you once had a preference.. But, actually, the illustrious David P. from this thread convinced me to think of the one in 2-3 as the three. It worked! I can now interchange the feel of 3-2 and 2-3 at will without losing clave. In other words, there's only one clave - it's universal. It didn't really take that long either. :;):
Posted:
Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:45 pmby davidpenalosa
Charangaman wrote:windhorse wrote:I can play Rumba clave quite easily. And in fact it feels easier to me than son clave.
Me too, it feels more natural to me.. Son clave is so rigid, also 3 - 2 feels easier than 2 - 3. ???
Hi guys,
The Cuban folkloric masters don't relate to the whole 3-2, 2-3 terminology and concept since it's a tool exclusively of popluar music. So many of their North American and European students ask them 3-2, 2-3 releated questions though, that the Cuban folklorists try to be accommodating. However, these Cubans have tended to interpret the 3-2, 2-3 concept incorrectly; they consider rumba clave (3-2) to be 2-3 because the first two stokes are grouped together and the last three strokes are grouped together (space-wise). The folklorists interpretation is only natural since the actual 3-2, 2-3 concept is based in the binary-measure system of writing clave. They don't deal with written music.
So, my advice is don't use the 3-2, 2-3 terminology with Cuban folklorists since it is not a part of that music. If you have already done so, just be forwarned that they may very well have misunderstood what you've said since they interpret 3-2 rumba to be "2-3". :p
Dave, I'm so glad I was able to convince you to drop 3-2, 2-3 in folkloric music and that it was relatively easy to do so. I went through a similar adjustment.
-David
