Drumming and hearing?

[chris hansen]

Hello,

Has anyone noticed hearing problems related to drumming? I have tinnitus and it's been getting worse since I started drumming and it makes me nervous. I really enjoy drumming and would hate to give it up but I like my hearing even more.

[35-1169066129]

Ear Plugs.......No Ear Plugs? Ask someone to let you borrow 2 Cigarettes...use the filters
With Mucho Respect... #1 A
Have a nice weekend.



Edited By #1 A on 1170422509

[onile]

Alafia Abures!

I believe Abure #1 A had mentioned "ear plugs", that is what anyone in this hobby/profession would recommend.

I have a set that I use EVERY time I gig out! The difference is that I had mine especially made for my ears. They ran me about $160, but I went to my primary doctor, told him what I was needing, had a hearing check up and they put in the order for me!

Of course however you can always purchase the 'spongy' kind of plugs you can pick-up in any store, they work well, however only to a certain deciple (?sp) level.

Suave!

Onile!

[Diceman]

Totally agree with everything said,
as a musician your ears are your main asset. Protect them at all times and get the best you can afford.
This is advice from someone who didnt and wished he had.

Suave
Diceman

[windhorse]

My #1 blessing is my ears. My #1 curse is my ears.
Interesting dichotomy, but it's true.
From a life of loud music as a kid in a rock band, slamming my ears sideways on wierd dives from the high board when showing off as a kid; when I finally got to the conga my ears couldn't take it. Most people who've had the "normal" amount of abuse seem to be just fine with the sound of a conga and even the shaker and bells.. But, it sends me into a head spin of searing pain if I stand next to a shaker or bell. And just practicing conga at low volume will hurt if I play over a few minutes. So, I wear ear plugs.. Need them so often that they're on my keychain...
It's terrible to have to use such a crutch all the time, but it's simply necessary.
If you have tinnitus, it's the only answer, so get used to the cloudiness of hearing when wearing them.
It turns out that you get used to it.

Dave

[Thomas]

IMO ear-protection is the most important thing.
A musician without hearing is like a carpenter without hands, jobless.
On stage I always wear inear- monitoring. And in loud rehearsal situations, I always wear those ear-plugs mentioned before.
Anyway, wish you all the best for your ears (especially Chris and Dave)!
Tom!

[jorge]

Yeah, playing congas can cause permanent hearing loss. I have been playing 35 years, mostly rumba but also salsa and R&B. I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and tinnitus in both ears, which I attribute in part to playing congas and claves. It is hard to measure sound pressure levels very accurately for percussive sounds, but one guide you can use is whether your ears ring after you play. If they do, the sound level is too loud. Playing claves, especially the high pitched rosewood claves, seems the worst for me. Although I love the sound of a perfect slap on the conga, that also seems to be hard on the ears.

Hearing protection is the best solution, although for me it does take some of the enjoyment out of playing. You don't need a lot of decibels of sound reduction, I find the commercial 20 dB hearing protectors they sell in music stores to be too strong. I can't sing (can't sing anyway!) and don't hear the music clearly enough. I had hearing protectors molded by an audiologist, and even the 15 dB filters are a little too strong for an acoustic rumba. I use the 9 dB filters. This is plenty, maybe still a little too much reduction, but 9 dB is the minimum sound reduction that is available, as far as I know. The molded hearing protectors are expensive, around $200 USD, but are worth the investment since they will help you preserve your hearing long term. If anyone has seen 6 dB hearing protectors, please speak up.

[windhorse]

I use the 20db etymotic earplugs, which come with a long stem for easy application and removal.. But the stem looks so stupid that I had to cut them off. Turns out the stem has a covering that stops sound from entering the center, so I just left the little hole open. No doubt it's somewhere close to the 6-9 db range.. They're just right for me, and I can still hear subtelties, and you have to look really close to tell I'm wearing plugs!

[jorge]

Great suggestion, Windhorse. I will try that with the Etymotics I have sitting in my drawer.

Not today, though, I can't hear right. I forgot to bring my hearing protectors to the rumba last night, and my ears are still ringing this morning. Also, things around me, like running water, sound less loud, especially the high frequencies. This "temporary threshold shift" is the classic sign that the sound level was too loud and damage, possibly permanent, has been done. Usually, the ringing and higher hearing threshold go away over a day or two and your hearing goes back to normal. Over the years, however, the temporary threshold shifts become worse and longer, and eventually, your hearing becomes permanently worse.

The moral: Wear your hearing protectors, and don't stand 2 feet in front of the monitors like I did for a couple of songs!

[JohnnyConga]

Conga playing can cause "permanent" hearing loss?????? Im sorry been playing for 41 years that cannot be true in any way I hear just fine, as a matter of fact people Hire me for production and mixing, because I have EARS...so I wouldn't be saying that unless u can prove it to me.....BTW what did u say? hahahaha...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[jorge]

Hi JC,
Yes, there is a lot of well accepted scientific proof that high sound levels can cause permanent damage to hearing. Playing congas and other acoustic percussion instruments (eg, claves, guagua, timbales), amplified music in general, overly loud or poorly set up PA systems, and any other source of loud sounds can all cause hearing damage. For the same sound level (usually measured in A-weighted decibels, dBA), musical instruments can cause the same degree of hearing damage as industrial noise, jet engines, or other sound sources. In fact, percussive sounds are more likely to cause hearing damage than sustained tones, maybe because the peak sound level is higher than what is measured for shorter sounds.

The U.S. Occupational Health and Safety Administration has set standards for sound levels in the workplace. Take a look at the OSHA website here:

http://www.osha.gov/pls....id=9735

Table G-16 lists the sound levels in dB and the length of time per day that is considered safe to be exposed to that sound level. These permissible maximum levels are set where they are because it is believed that they will not cause permanent hearing damage, although some scientists believe that the permissible levels should be set lower.

I haven't measured sound levels at the rumba, or in rehearsals, but playing moderately hard on an unamplified Skin on Skin 11" quinto, I measured 100 dBA right next to my ear (A-weighted, slow response, on a Radio Shack digital Sound Pressure Level Meter, which is actually considered a reasonably accurate meter). The 13" tumbadora was 103 dBA, and an LP red block guagua was 100 dBA. This was in my basement studio, with lots of sound absorption. At the rumba, in a club with a hard floor and ceiling, 3 congas, guagua, claves, (no chequere) 4 singers, and the PA speakers right next to us, the sound level has to be at least 105 dB, higher if the sound guy is drunk or you are in a bad spot. I will try to sneak my sound level meter into the rumba next time to see if I am right. An hour a day of 105 dB is the maximum allowed by OSHA, and if these numbers are right, we probably exceed that in every rumba. Performances with an amplified band can be even louder.

Like with most adverse health effects caused by environmental exposures, different people can be affected differently by the same sounds. For example, only about 15% of cigarette smokers die of lung cancer (although most of the rest get heart disease, stroke, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, bladder cancer, etc), so probably some conga players will get hearing loss and others exposed to the same loudness won't. JC, you seem to be one of the fortunate ones that still has good hearing after 41 years playing congas. Even so, don't take it for granted, especially since you do professional mixing and audio work. You only get one set of ears. Sometimes mild noise-induced hearing loss can combine with normal hearing loss of aging, making hearing worse than it would have been due to aging alone.

Bottom line is that we should be aware of the sound levels around us when we play and use hearing protection if it is too loud. Your ears are your tools for music, as well as for production, mixing, and life in general. Noise induced hearing loss can't be fixed, it is permanent. Most audio engineers mix and master at 83-85 dB max, and are very cautious about protecting their hearing. We should be too.

Disculpeme por dar una conferencia sobre esto, pero viene de corazon.

Jorge



Edited By jorge on 1170708244

[Thomas]

Thanks for this profound and interesting explanation Jorge.
All the best,
Tom!

[franc]

jorge,
i have to agree with ''thomas'' it sure makes lots of sense. but please can you explain a little further about sustained tones. let me quote'' in fact, percussive tones are more likely to cause hearing damaged than sustained tones'' unquoted. is sustained is less damaging, like the noise of a jet plane?? take care and thanks! my best and áche to you!!! franc :;):

[jorge]

Hi Franc,
Sustained tones are like musical notes. A jet plane produces a sustained sound and up close, is so loud that it can cause almost immediate permanent damage to hearing. It is easy to measure the loudness (sound level) because it does not change very fast.

Impulsive or percussive sounds are rapidly changing, like hitting a clave or guagua. The sound level increases quickly, then drops off quickly. This is much harder to measure, and the peak loudness may only last a few milliseconds. For this reason, if the sound level meter measures say 100 dB for a short percussive sound, the peak could have been much higher, but the level sort of gets averaged out over the whole sound, rather than measuring just the peak loudness. The peak loudness seems to be more important than the average loudness when it comes to causing hearing damage. To my ears, one of the loudest and most damaging sounds we make is from those Mexican rosewood claves. They have a piercing high pitched sound that cuts through the music, but also really bothers my ears. Even outdoors, after an afternoon singing coro and playing claves in the rumba in Central Park, my ears are shot for the next day or 2. The hollow claves have a mellower sound that is harder to hear, but doesn't seem to damage your ears as much.
Paz y Aché.
Jorge



Edited By jorge on 1170727549

[franc]

Jorge,
thanks for the explanatiion. i do agreed that it makes lot of sense. like everything else the truth makes lots of sense. it opens your mind. thank you a lot. like you i hate the high cutting sound of mexican rose wood clave and others like it. it is annoying and uncomfortable to the ear. right there is a precised example of what you just explained about sound and hearing loss. i'll bet that most of us in the forum agree wiith you. mucho blessing and luck!! ache!! Franc