THE PERCUSSION INSTRUMENT MARKET...WHAT YOU THINK?

[Raymond]

Been noticing the discussion about Gon Bops that is a "new brand" sponsored by DW. (The name is not new neither the brand but.....). Gon Bops is doing what other brands are trying to do that is to get a share of the pie of the percussion instruments market.

My discussion here is to see, you as a musician, how do you perceive all the recent moves, new products, trap drum brands getting into the percussion area, and the traditional companies who are trying to maintain their share of the market.....

It is my understanding that two years ago, the percussion instrument market grew and that the "leader", LP, lost endorsers as a result of problems in their "treatment to them" and LP's traditionalism towards their instruments and went somewhere else." (Please note my understanding was that the percussion instrument market did not grow last year but certain brands took more of the share of the pie from the leader, LP. By the way, LP has improved their treatment to endorsers by giving them more attention bringing a lot of them to NAMM and taking some of the spotlight away from the usual suspects...Giovannni and Tito Puente that have become the focus of their promo together with some traditonal folks too like Candido, Armando Peraza, etc, etc.....).

As you all know, Pearl took various prime endorsers of LP and started a wave of bringing new products into the market. Also, Remo signed Jimmy Morales and started revamping, improving and growing their afro-cuban line. I think more is to come from Remo.... Meinl sort of like got stuck with products that look generic but continues to be a force to be reckon with. Toca...well Toca..lost a couple of endorsers and I think Karman's acquisiton of LP, Toca's parent company, have left Toca with the speculation of a fusion in the future with perhaps LP unless they bring something interesting in the market that they have not done during the last couple of years....who knows.... Now we have Gon Bops that during NAMM 2006 brought some interesting stuff just had a little corner...This year they had a full wall with new endorsers like Alex Acuna, from Toca, the Quintero cousins and the Walfredo Reyes Sr and Jr, from LP. Have to admit their congas look and sounded good....

So after all this mambo jambo....what do you think about the major brands and what is been happening during the last couple of years Hey I know some will say LP still front runner on some things but what do you think about the marketing the companies are using, quality, what is your impression of the stuff they have brought, their endorsers, etc, etc.

I don't know if you guys mind giving your comments...

Saludos!

[deadhead]

The market is definitly expanding, I see new products and inovations poping up daily by the companies you mentioned. I think however that like you said alot of these companies are just out to get a piece of the pie. LP was the leader for so long, they were one of the very few that put out latin percussion at all, I remember just 5 or 6 years ago going to my local music store and walking into the percussion room, it was all LP and Toca, nobody else. I think that companies like Pearl and Remo need to stick to what they do best and thats drumsets and heads. I can't say that I have played on either of their congas, but honestly I expect the least from them, and really would care less if I ever laid my hands on their drums. Forgive me if I come off a bit sour, as I know alot of people here play on their drums and would swear by them, but it just makes me sad to think that a great company like LP, who started it all, is now forced to cut back on its quality in order to put out cheaper produced products in order to compete with companies who have no bussiness being in THEIR market. A larger market means more competition, which in turn means cheaper prices; however as we all know, you get what you pay for, and in order to compete, these companies are having to really cut back on the quality of their goods. Even the high end drums are lacking these days. Its not even about sound anymore, its about whos drums look the coolest on stage. Instead of slapping on some ugly tribal designs or gold colored hardware, why can't they throw some decent heads on instead. :p

[Raymond]

Deadhead,

Respect your comments. They sound sincere and I understand!

However, and this post is not for LP bashing, LP has fallen into a comfort zone with everything they produced and the way they used to market themselves. They are still the leaders and is for one reason: they have been the longest in the market plus their quality has been great!

You have to see LP history to know....Martin Cohen did a great thing in trying to make accesible afro-cuban instruments to the mass market. But personally, I think they are other options that are as good and for better prices. LP has become stuck with their traditon and just now started working with their current line up of endorsers by giving them new signature lines...It was too late for some who went somewhere else.

Capitalism is about a free market. We have a saying in Spanish that says..."shoemaker to his shoes..."and your comment about the trap drum companies are doing might be thought by others. If we think like that then why an American Jewish is the "guru" of the afro-caribbean market and not a Cuban or a Puertorrican or any other LatinAmerican....It is interesting...It took an American person who took interest in "our things" to begin something that at the end was better. I would have liked that some of the "boutique shops" owned by Latin Americans be in the game too...but that is another market....

Anyway...I think Gon Bops and Pearl are coming with great stuff even better than LP and in my opinion their endorser line up is starting to sound interesting...LP continues with the tradition...they were the only game in town and almost everybobdy who is somewhere else was an LP endorser. In my opinion, the increased competition should be good for all musicians. Let's hope prices start going down a bit....

Things are changing...it will be interesting who prevails after, lets say five years. There was a boom and opportunities because of the problems LP had but is no longer true because LP is getting their stuff together...Let's see...Thanks for you comments!

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1173796854

[deadhead]

I think LP is a great company and they will continue to be the leaders. Their name is just too well known. Ide like to see DW do some high end work with Gon Bops. Their drumsets are world renown, and if they put in half of the effort they put into their kits I think their conga line will prove to be a fantastic one. I see a great future for them. Its all about invention and inovation now, should be interesting to see what new products will be produced in the next few years.

[JohnnyConga]

WEll as a PEARL ENDORSEE for over 12 years I can say the Company has "been berry berry gut to me"...they are still young with there Latin percussion line, and growing all the time..Remember LP was the first to really "mass" produce congas and are well established all over the world....but Pearl, Toca, Gon-Bops-(which have been around actually the longest as a drum manufacturer), Meinl and some others are right up there now with LP...with quality instruments, variety,and innovation....I am waiting for the "see thru" conga to come out ... not that its a new concept, I've seen "see thru" congas in the early 70's...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[Raymond]

There is no secret that Pearl Percussion has been the fastest growing percussion company in the last two years. We have grown over 80% over that period. Definitively, become a force to be reckon with and I know the "leader" knows it.

The company, that although is as complete as LP, that during the last couple of years have not brought interesting stuff is Meinl. Also, they have been simplying their line ups. (You should see in NAMM it was the "nothing is going on" booth. They were next to LP, that something is always going on with rumbas, etc and they requested the "sound inspectors" of NAMM to request LP to keep it down. Besides LP, our booth, Pearl's is the other one having constant rumbas and things going on.

Yes...Pearl has been great to me too JC! Can't complaint and things will be getting better believe me!

Saludos!

[GuruPimpi]

To add my point of view...

I agree that LP as a 'leader' for so many years did fell a sleep a little bit and other brands did make their move on as the market did grow. May be you don't see it, cause you are lucky to live in a culture where tumbadoras are as important as a guitar and drumset to rock n'roll music, but here in Europe the percussion market grew enourmosly; it's got a lot to do with the musical market, world music, ethno, jazz, house music... these genres made the percussion market interesting for other brands in last ten years, i'm speaking for Europe.

I could make the advertisement how Meinl is good to me too... it is, can't say that, but as every large brand it's very interested in getting popular and making the sales bigger and bigger for least of expences. It's the way of capitalism and every one who wants to get big in as quick as possible time. Can't blame them for that, but this is tricky part of whole thing today.

I own congas and percussion 'thingies' mainly from Meinl (congas, djembe, bongos...) and Pearl (congas).

If you are endorser they treat you good and give you a lot of attention, but that is reserved for few of yo(us).
Is this only for endorsers topic?

couple of words from other agents, musicstore managers and musicians (for provocation only):

... Pearl is making very good drumsets, and percussion lines are just for taking the piece of a pie. Pearl should stick to drumsets... DW too...
...LP is owned by a weapon manufacturer, that's bad karma and today are paying for that as a loss of sales...
... German can't make a good tumbadoras, maybe wurst, but conga no...

I think it's the matter of marketing scientists, not all but a lot...

I hope that soon I'll get my hands on custom made tumbadoras for me, ordered at Mathews or other well known by it's mastered skills of conga making shop. It's where the Love for instrument and Music lives...

my 6 BigBrand congas

Primoz

one that is 'not known name brand' is Mamma to all of them (by sound and looks)

[Charangaman]

I think it's good that LP no longer have this monopoly.. The more Conga manufacturers the better, Pearl's folkloric line seems to be a clever strategy and captures the times whereas LP's recent stuff is just ugly and garish to me..

LP is coming like the Mcdonalds of percussion..

Wish I could just build my own...



Edited By Charangaman on 1173867048

[congamyk]

Pearl, Toca, & Gon-Bops are all great alternatives to LP.

I have pro sets of LP and Toca and they both have thier advantages. I'm glad there is more competition. Yes, the buyer should beware but I think more alternatives & competition is best for all.

The best sounding congas I've ever played in my life were a set of Afro (now Pearl) congas from 10 years ago.

[zwar]

ho folks

at last years "frankfurt musikmesse" the stand from lp really was a joke. the only interesting thing, and the only featured thing was the compact-conga. there were no galaxy, no palladium, no classics, no accents, shortly nothing one could seriously call professional stuff. created macdonald feeling. imho this is not the way to keep leadership. lots of people make their decision, what to buy and what not to buy, on frankfurt musikmesse. its the only event in germany where you really can compare drums, timbs and whatever. if you dont show the full range of drums available, it will not do any good.
meinl did put all their congas on boards at a wall. looks good, but not really praktical to play on. pearl and remo had nice stands with pro-outfit, in the hall-center, open all around.
me i am able to walk around in a somehow neutral mood. i am well equipped with drums and i will not fall in love with the one or other instrument. i do not endorse nothing, my congas are from lp and meinl, my timbs from pearl, my bongos from remo, the blocks from rythm tech etc, and i want to keep it that way.
so when somebody wants my advice, what to buy, i just compare quality and price. given the fact the top of the line drums are all the same in quality (what is nearly true) remains the price as the main difference.
the market is growing, that is true, but just on the producers side, on the consumers side there is only developement in the cheap-drums-section.
i think it is just not possible, to sell such an amount of congas and percs as a whole. they are producing too much, and prices will go down the next years, especially in top of the line area.

zwar

[Jongo]

Hey guys, the instrument market has undergone some interesting changes. LP was clearly the leader, and still is in terms of name recognition, sales etc. but the other manufacturers are catching up. Pearl, Toca, Meinl, Gon Bops, Bauer, are all putting out viable options. The competition is good for us because we can find less expensive alternatives that sound just as good. The companies will have to recognize that most of us don't care about the fancy paint and graphics and that we want quality at a fair price. So manufacturers will be forced to maintain or increase quality at competetive prices.
My only concern is that I would hate to see the "boutique" manufacturers suffer with low sales but I think they are not really competing for the same market segment exactly. Not everybody wants to play LP or Pearl and sometimes you want that old school sound or a handmade instrument by someone who knows what it is supposed to sound like vs made in a factory in Thailand. So I hope that Timba is able to survive, MOPERC, JCR, Matthew Smith, Isla and others.
When it is time for me to buy a new set of congas I am going to look at all the options and not blindly go with one choice.

[pcastag]

I believe that good things are happening in the world of latin percussion. First of all, I think LP went downhill when they moved manufacturing to thailand and started using "siam" oak and water buffalo heads. Not only are the newer congas made of inferior materials, but the timbales and cowbells are thinner also. Pick up an old New Jersey bell or set of timbales and you'll see what i mean. Having said that, most of the production line stuff is going to be very similar in terms of quality and sound. all use the same wood ( "siam" oak or rubberwood as meinl refers to it) and water buffalo skins. the few exceptions are some of the high end offerings from meinl, pearls new drums and of course the Giovanni's, however a lot of companies are taking note of the ashwood syndrome ( check out the new gonbops) and offering that option as well. I think the best 'production' line drums would be the new gon bops. actually custom made to order by Akbar (previously of sol percussion) and the Bauer drums from Brazil. Why? Simple, good wood, good skin. What else do you want? there is a noted difference in the North American oak used by Gon Bops and the "siam" oak used by most manufacturers that have shifted production to Southeast asia. One thing that is for sure is that the price of handcrafted drums has skyrocketed. I bought a pair of skin on skins eight years ago, cherrywood, 12, 13, for 800.00. Price some similar drums out today, about 6-800 per drum! The other day an 11 and 12 in oak went on e-bay for 2grand! Wow!!!

[windhorse]

Great thread!! Nice thought to start it this way, and good comments from everyone!
I think PC is right in that you're really lucky if you already have botique drums, and you're just going to have to pay increasingly more as time goes by.
It seems that a good set of drums if treated well should last you a life time. Um, at least if you started in your 40s like myself..
So I count my blessings..

D

[Raymond]

Definitively, interesting comments! Personally, I like the rethoric of things we take for granted.

Just to add....the boutique shops are in another market, although, obviously the get affected on how the "mass market" behaves. They will not go away it is just that they will be more expensive and will be more attention on what "we" want. On the same token, the mass producers will do the same since they are all looking for your attention also.

The companies have a big dilema with their marketing that we have to understand. Who do you cater to? The pro player or the beginner who will get serious or the occassional player who does not care about certain things, the one as plainly a hobby without getting serious, etc, etc. In summary, LP is trying to "personalize" the market with all the "crazy designs", paying attention to some of its "new generation" endorsers and not the classig ones, and is upgrading its "mid-level", Matador that is doing pretty well. I guess eventually, anything with LP badges could become more expensive or very different to avoid competing with itself in the pro level. Meinl is interesting. A couple of years ago they moved to the US to get serious about the US market. Their line was as impressive as LP and even more interesting with different woods and materials, perhaps confusing to some but great to some with variety, but I have noticed that they are revamping their line and making it more simple and easy to understand, like LP. In the same LP mode, they are concentrating in a few endorsers like Luis Conte and changing some of their old stuff with this new stuff that has become "generic" just like LP. Pearl is trying to obtain the same "catalog" as the big players and I think they are doing well. My concern is that they do not do the same thing as LP..."concentrating in a few" and because they are owned by a "trap drum company" at the end the company does not pay attention to their percussion line, specially, if their trap drum business begins to "slow down". Pearl Percussion line is doing great but again, is important the "trap drumming" people provide the resources to the percussion people as much as they do to the trap drumming. (The same is with DW with Gon Bops if they do well. See below for more). Remo is trying hard, congas and bongos so far and I am waiting for other things too to increase their catalog. (Same problem as Pearl and DW...they are a head company...if you go serious in the afro-caribbean instrument market, please follow through and please do not fall short because the market will kill you and you will go backwards). Toca?????? I always saw Toca like imitating what LP had, and that is even before they were owned by the same company, but cheap and ugly looking. From a marketing standpoint, they look "tacky", i.e., the palm in their logo, "white cowbells.", etc. etc. Nothing exciting from Toca is like they are reactive instead of being pro active. Gon Bops looks interesting too me and I personally think they are appealing to the "boutique" crowd (that by the way is who the "name" was catering to in the past until DW got envoled. If I am not mistaken is the same people that were in the "boutique" period but now DW backing them up and keeping the "boutique" alternative which is great. LP is trying that but just in the "looks" area and not the drum....We'll see).

What I hope some of these brands do not do is forget the player in the tropical genre....LP proved succesful in not only appealing to the Latinamerican player who actually is the one that gives a beating to their instruments. I think they need to pay attention more to them". (The instruments that are made now have great features and toys and things that are more appealing to the pop/rock/other non latin genres that are great but not functional to the "original" player who is noticing the quality is suffering and the functionality of some the instruments is not as good as they were in the past). There is not attention to that at this moment, although LP is trying and I know Pearl is too, and the boutique shops benefit from that.....We'll see).

5 cents more. I am glad some of you have liked this thread. For me is "philosophically speaking' important for all of us and I think they, the companies, should read what we think and we should provide them feedback so they take in consideration our opinion. Keep the comments going....!

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1174248979

[Attilio]

I'm following this thread from Europe, don't have much chance to get to play these exclusivities, luckily, there are also some guys that offer handmade Congas and other percussion here in Europe.

Check these out:

Great congas from Switzerland:

Twice Percussion

I've visited these guys recently, PERCUSSION HEAVEN!!! :p
Even a beginner like me could sound great on these congas.

Big stuff from Germany:

Munz & Simonsen

Regards