congaplace.com

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:28 pm**

This is a big pet peeve with me....to me if your playing for the door I.your an amateur...2. you "ho"-ing" your self out..3. How would u like if i came to your day gig and worked for the door.at the end of the week ur expecting a check and u dont get nothing .To me EVERY CLUB and MUSICAL situation belongs to ME...the WORKING MUSICIAN...if you are not a "working" musician PLEASE DO NOT WORK FOR THE DOOR......don't be fooled with the question "Do u have a following?" My arrogant answer would be NO! I DON'T HAVE VERIZON!...NOBODY has a "following" if their local.. yea u have some friends, family members, but that is not a "following" of fans...Please HELP ME TO RAISE THE BAR!..If your gonna do the door make sure it's for 10 bucks or more and the room can hold at least 1oo people, and that you are not made to pay for "the door man, 2 security personel, the sound man, and the state door tax......which is what some places do to the bands here(Seattle,WA) and I have bumped heads with some of these club owners, one who still happens to owe me 570 bucks....but instead of taking him to small claims court, I told him to his face "musicians talk" and they will know from me about your business practices....well since then none of the top bands in town will play this place anymore, unless given a "guarentee"....so WE can "raise up" and get what we deserve, when it's done right...now people here in Seattle know me very well and also know what I bring to the table...42 years of experience.....so what can they tell me?.....hahahahhaha....I dont' need a following, I have a great band and play music nobody else here plays. I have work that I have created for myself.....WE don;t need club owners ...THEY NEED US! WE PROVIDE A SERVICE AND THAT SERVICE IS CALLED ENTERTAINMENT AND IT'S A SERVICE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR....plain and simple....my 3 congas....."JC" Johnny Conga...

Edited By JohnnyConga on 1184186984

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:43 pm**

word!
looks like we, the musicians, are always the last and the least.
once, long time ago, i got asked to play a jazz gig (as a trap set player) and the club owner told me: "yes, drummer, but bring no bass drum" to which i replied: "no problem, and i will tell my piano player to bring only the black keys".
and that was it, as you can guess. :laugh:
peace&bless!

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:57 pm**

Thanks, JC, for re-affirming a lesson you learned from the "school of hard knocks".

I, myself, encountered this problem playing with my old band about 3 years ago. Ironically, my problem wasn't with the club owners. It was our drummer, who was the leader of our band. Some of my fellow bandmembers started complaining to me (I was their common confidant) about how they suspected that this drummer was shortchanging us because the accounting was too lax.

Initially, I gave our drummer the benefit of the doubt. To my disadvantage, I trusted him (I'm a trusting person)--perhaps, too much. When the apparent irregularity happened one too many times with our band, I finally confronted him.

Of course, he denied it and, frankly, I couldn't prove it beyond a shadow of doubt. So, I just told him that I'm simply leaving it between him and God and that I hope that he could sleep nights.

That just turned me off completely from his band and I soon enough left him. The other members left him shortly after. Now, he's suffering from a bad reputation and isolation for his greedy, idiotic, short-term business thinking.

Since then, I've focused mainly on being a freelance musician and booking primarily private gigs myself. So far, God-willing, I've been quite fortunate in this regard.

Edited By mjtuazon on 1184189808

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:15 pm**

INTEGRITY is a word that "some" musicians don't have in their vocabulary......"JC" Johnny Conga.......

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:26 pm**

Es muy verdad!

To me, musicians who don't have integrity, especially dealing with money, are not true artists. They're really (shrewd) businessmen in artist's clothing.

Edited By mjtuazon on 1184189864

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:37 pm**

JC!!! ABSOLUTELY DEAD-ON, BROTHER. I've told club owners and bands interested in having me play "for the door" to find someone else. I play for a fee. Period. I am not responsible for bringing patrons to your place. YOU promote yourself properly so you can pay for the entertainment I provide. Period. I consider myself enough of a professional to value my performances, and frankly if you are not "paid" to perform, your performance has little value. And don't hit me up that it's ART. No question we must love what we do, and infuse it with all of our energy, but perform "for the door" ? I'll show YOU the door!

Posted: **Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:41 pm**

Yea JC,

I understand your rant. I dont work for the door, as i dont need to risk not getting paid on a slow night, but people who do are not like 'scabs'

If you can play, they will pay (at least around here). If they hire an amature, that is what they will get.

If they want cheap shitty music, ok, have at it.

If they want some real class, kick down the duckets :laugh:

For me, local mid week bar gigs are fine, and its not about the money. I can work on new things, try new ideas, take risks and make mistakes. And the free beer is tasty.

Other than dance classes, there is not much work mid week.

Do you think they would be forced to hire a band if they couldnt find anyone to play for the door? they would just turn up the CD player.

My beef is with the lack of support for the arts in general, and not the amature musician playing for the door.

Tony

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:47 am**

In L.A., the clubs always seem to have the upper hand from what I can tell. It's even pay-to-play in a lot of clubs.... and if you don't like it, there's supposedly 10 other bands ready to pay to be able to play... How do you propose that an artist can gain the upper hand over the club and still get the opportunity to perform? It's not like musicians have a functioning union, unless we're talking about studio stuff.

Maybe the internet will help give people the exposure they need without having to pay to play in clubs just to get the exposure????

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:34 am**

So the alternative is to be an "Internet Star"??????..give me a break.....I don't care if times have changed but there is a right way and a wrong way to achieve what u want ....being mediocre and "paying" your way to the top is just not the way it's done....and personally speaking THERE IS TOO MUCH MEDIOCRITY today!.....almost anybody who owns an instrument today thinks they can make it and that there a star...it's about TRUE TALENT.......and who ya know....it's been that way, though the people in the business today IMHO wouldnt know talent if it tripped over them....."JC" Johnny Conga....

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:39 am**

I can certainly understand the frustrations involved. But some things just seem to work a certain way, because others tend to force musicians to tip their hand.

Got a real-world solution? One that will actually work in the favor of the musicians who are trying to make things pay in the long run?

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 am**

Just reading this made me me think of the lyrics for a recent chart hit in the UK , it about the Simon Cowel style Stars. read if you have time .

The artist is a young up and comer not elected by public votes on X factor stylee shows .
Has this kind of new talent cheapened it for the guys Like JC ? maybe ? talent shows I hate them . :O

http://www.onlylyrics.com/song.php?id=1004121

marco

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:47 am**

JC, I feel your frustration and agree. I'd rather stay at home and practice. but that's me. Perhaps it would be different if I played the harmonica and all I had to carry was one of those little suitcases with 10 of them inside. WhopBB, you're right also. . It is the way it is, and I don't think there's a "solution" unfortunately. Perhaps the problem is that guitars are too light. If they each weighed as much as a couple of tumbadoras plus stands and perc toys, there would be fewer "singer/songwriters" out there willing to shlep their gear to the next play-for-the-door gig. But seriously.... my solution/approach is to devote my time to becoming as good as I can possibly be while screening the opportunities for those that pay.

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:34 am**

interesting debate .In Ireland a smoking ban was introduced a couple of years ago .Great idea from a health point of view , but a nightmare from a gigging perspective . Its the new excuse for lots of pubs to not pay alot of money to bands , many people are now staying at home and drinking indoors . As some of you may know , we are fond of a few bevvies on occasion

, this has completely ruined the music scene in pubs tbh . Its like asking the bar staff to wait and see how many people buy drinks , and then we know how much wages you are entitled to .

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:36 pm**

Hi Niall..sorry to hear that...It just seems strange to me that this whole situation has been created because people want to smoke cigarettes...you might have to get inventive and follow the smokers around and offer your musical services to them?.....damn...."JC" Johnny Conga...

...PS ...maybe u should align yourself with the local Chamber of Commerce,and list yourself with them. It's just another way of getting work....corporate and otherwise...

Posted: **Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:22 pm**

Ok brother JC,..I have some experience in the subject since I have work for places like with 40.000 in capacity to around 200 in capacity and Festivals with 100.000/plus…It all depend in the promotion of the ‘act’,(Band,singer),etc.),if you have a Label/Comp.,promoting you and the songs are hot in the radio,(you have the foundation to get the door/cut),or the promoter is going to get that cut and would pay you from that,…there are Regional/Bands which have their audience,or followers and could get the same,and local/bands,( I have been on two of them),which could do more money playing by the door than what the owner is willing to pay,The rest of the locals/bands which are playing for the crowd which have been established by the business would be pay by the owner,(that would be reflected into expenses anyway)…In Festivals the big/acts would get pay more than the locals/bands which play early…and in DJ’s Clubs it would depend in the arrangement between the promoters and the awner,…The whole point is how fast and noise the cashiers are working....Dr. Zaragemca

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