Traditional Rhythms versus new Rhythms

[pcastag]

You know what Marcelo? I think it's because when people just listen to something once or twice and don't spend too much time wth it it does sound al the same. Once you begin to listen to the music you begin to dicern the intricacies and the signatures of each group. I guess if JC doesn't spend a lot of time with Timba it all sounds the same, i mean you can tell manolito's band right away and azucar negra etc. etc. if you spend some time, juts like you can pick out philly joe or blakey if you've been listenting to them. To the uneducated it ear I guess it all sounds the same. TOUCHE!

[JohnnyConga]

I love all the Cuban bands and the music that they create and No I haven't heard the latest from any of them, at least not yet... I do like Tomas Cruz Timba All Stars, Original NG, Tipica Juventud, Charanga Habanera(one of my favorites)......but you are just talking about one form of music ...this conversation started about music in general in the States from the past to today....and i do know that all the bands you mention have their own sound(which has evolved from other Cuban bands sounds as well) How many Cubans bands sound like Ritmo Oriental?...a little twist here a little twist there to make it sound a bit different but very similar...
but this isnt about one rhythmic form of music..its about traditional versus new....I stopped listening to main stream music here in the states around 1985...then the redundancy began...so when i do say I have heard it all before Im talking about the music from America...
Now what is new and different to me is the Jazz that is coming from the Eastern block countries in Europe ...very traditional in jazz modalities, but fresh arrangements and great soloing..that doesnt sound like something i have heard before...
Flamenco Jazz is new
Tercera Planeta is new( a band from Puerto Rico)they mix SKA with Rumba and other rhythmic forms...
Afro-Mantra is new(a band from NYC)
Oriente(Miami band) traditional cuban with rock and jazz elements led by Cuban guitarist/singer Eddie Balzoa
and there are others as well..
So Abakua I will take back my timba statement...only because as u say "I might not be up to speed" with the new material of the Timba bands coming out now...I don't buy CD's and havent for years...so If it's not sent to me or comes to the radio station where I work i dont get to hear the bands you have mentioned....so yea im a bit behind the times...can u forgive me?....

[Anonimo]

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[pcastag]

Here's the stuff I like right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRaruY5YPfY&feature=fvst

And these guys with haila, incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TChbIlTSx3o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYheBp2s5c0

PC

[ABAKUA]

jajaja JC no need to forgive negron, aint nothing to forgive. tu me conoses better than that! Send me your addy on private message, I will make you a mixed dvd/cd of some of the latest stuff and send to you.

My post was only in response to your post about having 'heard one timba band, you heard em all', and not in general response to this thread.

Cuco, I will check out the links when I get home (youtube is blocked at my work)...
PS Im no kid But thanks for the compliment. Im 36, and been studying/performing professionally now for 25 yrs. Admittedly no where near as long as you old timers like JC and yourself, pero at same time far from a kid or beginner.
Just for your own info, my studies included the music of NYC from the 50's through to current, Puerto Rico's influence, Dominican Republic, and extensive studies of Cuban & Afro Cuban forms from the the music spawn from the slave trade, through the development over the 20's, 30's & 40's, through to the post revolution development and continuing evolvement of Cuban music to what it is today. As far as ego goes, far from it, I am known very well for my humildad. Just dont take me for a fool.

[Anonimo]

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[JohnnyConga]

Now after listening to Los Van Van and Manolito...can u guys tell me what the difference is between these two bands? Besides that Los Van Van has been around now for over 30 years...what I see and hear is that the newer bands have adopted that "Los Van Van" sound and style because of the popularity of it over the years...

i await your answers to the question...you see I understand "form" and I also KNOW what 'timba gears' are and the use of said form...so If you understand that please tell me the difference between the two...

[ABAKUA]

Van Van, 44 yrs to be accurate.

What album/song? I mean, the two bands sound nothing like each other. Sure maybe a song could sound similar to another band.. However both of these bands have a sound of their own.

For starters Manolito dont play songo, Van have only trombones, drum patterns are completely different, as are the tumbaos for congas, bass tumbaos and piano guajeos are compeltely different...

I saw both on a frequent basis in Cuba and played with Manolito also, they sound nothing alike.

Newer bands have not adopted Van Van's sound... Pupy has influences of Van Van due to Pupy having been the main composer of many of Van Vans hits, its his seal. Maykel Blanco spent years studying with Pupy, however his music is clearly seperate from the music of Van Van & Pupy.

[jorge]

... How many Cubans bands sound like Ritmo Oriental?...a little twist here a little twist there to make it sound a bit different but very similar...

JC, I wish I knew one band that sounded at all like Ritmo Oriental. I love Ritmo Oriental, and have never heard any other group that sounds like them at all. True, Tony Cala and David Calzado have moved to other bands, but neither NG nor Charanga Habanera sounds at all like Ritmo Oriental. I have never even heard anyone play Juan Bravo's tumbao that swings anything like he did with la Ritmo. Please tell me who sounds like them, I will go out and buy all their CDs.

[JohnnyConga]

So what is the difference? ..Manolito uses trombones and 2 keyboards like Van Van...of course guajeos and tumbaos will be different due to the arrangements.....everything Van Van plays is not Songo..or Timba...and the same with the other bands xcept the ones that play Timba only....Timba has overtaken Songo a long time ago now... so how does one distinguish one Timba band from another? Sound? size of the band?..use of particular instrumentation?...Arrangement?..Song?..Singer?..from Havana or elsewhere?.. .just go along with me on this please...educate and humor an old man, he just might learn something he dont know...Tks ...Abakua--much respect Bro u know that...

[pavloconga]

So what is the difference? ..

Hi JC,
I'm not a musicologist but man... those 2 bands are like the difference between an apple and an orange - both beautiful, delicious and juicy in their own way - but different flavours!

Compare for example, Van Van's "Esto Me Pone La Cabeza Mala" to Manolito's "Quien Manda En El Cielo".
Just 2 examples. Beautiful songs. But so different!

Just my 2 congas worth...

[Anonimo]

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[TONE74]

Yeah I would say the old Van Van to La Ritmo but even so you can tell the difference. Charanga Habanera and Van Van is not even close. But what do I know right, I'm young.

[JohnnyConga]

Well me may not agree on somethings but we can and most of us do agree Cuban music is great music that continues to evolve, and that we have ALL been influenced by it one way or another...my ears are different guys, sorry...my ears hear what they hear, and my ears have been used many times by many producers around the country, because of the way i hear and what i hear.an dhow i hear it, ..Charanga Habanera has their sound and do does LVV...ok? everybody happy? hahahahaha


next!.....

[pcastag]

Stefon Harris