Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

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Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby burke » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:55 pm

In another section I posted about how the 'for sale' was Leedy driven initiative and attracts a lot people who are not remotely interesting in the forum but just try to unload stuff. Then they are gone. I suggested maybe it was time to 86 it.

I realize though that some long term folks do use it and use it well.

What other online communities do is have a 'minimum posts' rule before you are allowed to sell stuff.

This would be a really good move IMHO.

Thoughts?
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby rhythmrhyme » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:00 pm

me like - 10-15 post minimum, must contain real content and contribute to the forum
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby jorge » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:59 pm

How would you judge "real content" and "contribute to the forum" as opposed to friendly but insincere BS posts just to get up to the limit? Not so easy to implement in practice. Motivated dealers with nothing substantive to offer the forum could get by that in a minute.

Closing the "for sale" section could have a particularly adverse impact on honest folks looking to buy or sell good instruments at reasonable prices, but who live in more isolated areas where local Craigslists are unlikely to be successful. Why shut them out? Those of us who are mainly interested in discussions of music, technique, repair methods, skins etc can simply ignore posts in that section. The post title is followed by identification of the section, so it is easy to recognized 'for sale' posts.

Another option is to keep the 'for sale' section open but require full real names and contact info to be provided in each for-sale post and prospective buyer response. Mods or forum owner, is there a way that verification of real name, email address and telephone number can be required by the website software as a requirement before being able to post in the "for sale" section? If not, we can at least require they post that information in their ad so people can verify it and report irregularities they encounter. That way people would have some level of accountability and be less likely to be abusive, disrespectful, misleading, bullying or outright dishonest. Since we don't have a rating, reputation or global identity verification system like fleaBay, we need some method of accountability for the classified ads. Anonymous business transactions are just fraught with potential for problems, and there is no way to prevent problematic people from just changing forum names and carrying on with their abusive practices.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby rhythmrhyme » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:00 pm

I've seen it done on other forums, the mods end up doing more work. It's there jobs to review members who request access to post on the section (in this instance, for sale). This approach would depend on the permissions setting capacity for the forum and could me more hassle than it's worth.

I was on a site where folks had to make 50 'substantive' posts before they could ask permission to a certain area. The mods have 100% control over the interpretation of 'substantive'.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby consciousnist » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:31 am

burke wrote:the 'for sale' ... attracts a lot people who ... try to unload stuff.


it's a shame.
people come here to offer percussion instruments.
please make it stop.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby burke » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:02 am

The forum existed for many, many years without a sale section. People came here to talk about congas, bongos, technique, teach, learn, share etc.

One dealer pushed for a 'for sale' section. Then got pissed off and pulled all his posts and disappeared.

We get contributing members who put stuff up. But mostly we get dorks who have no interest in the forum trying to unload overpriced 'treasures' or shit you can buy anytime on ebay or craigslist.

So yeah ... fucking right

'make it stop'
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby jorge » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:37 pm

I don't think the 'for sale' section needs to be eliminated. I agree that the mods don't have time to review every single member who wants to post in that section. Cynical, snarky posts by 'dealers' or trolls posing as potential buyers are unhelpful and a waste of everyone's time, dishonest business dealings are worse than that, and both should be discouraged. The best way to discourage that is to eliminate the anonymity that is allowed on this forum, at least for the 'for sale' section.

I propose simply that everyone who wants to advertise or respond to an ad in the 'for sale' section has to provide their correct name, telephone number and email address. All deals would be done using their telephone or email. If they do not provide that information or their contact information is found to be incorrect, that member would be banned.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby RitmoBoricua » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:27 pm

Before there was a "for sale" section on this forum people sold
and bought drums ,etc on this forum left and right for years. In
my opinion the for sale section is a good idea to keep all post
related to drum sales or people looking for drums in it's own
section. I know that in most cases sale transactions in this forum
are handled through PM's were real names and information are
exchanged. Just like on ebay or craigslist you have to be in the
lookout for scams and fraudalent activity. The forum is not really
buzzing with activity like it used to, sometimes days goes by with
no activity and sometimes the only activity you see in the forum
is in the for sale section. I do not have any major issues with the
for sale section I see it as a plus, at least whoever wants to sell
something have to join the forum and there is always the chance
that the person decides to stick around and become a regular
contributor. We got to remember the way this forum is set-up
you do not have to join to be able to read member's post, we
have lots people lurking around and contribute zero.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby 440ranch » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:36 am

burke wrote:The forum existed for many, many years without a sale section. People came here to talk about congas, bongos, technique, teach, learn, share etc.

One dealer pushed for a 'for sale' section. Then got pissed off and pulled all his posts and disappeared.

We get contributing members who put stuff up. But mostly we get dorks who have no interest in the forum trying to unload overpriced 'treasures' or shit you can buy anytime on ebay or craigslist.

So yeah ... fucking right

'make it stop'


"Dorks" huh? Wow...
So, how do you "get rid" of elitists who think they are hipper than others? Probably does more damage to the forum's brand than anything else.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby burke » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:46 pm

[/quote]"Dorks" huh? Wow...
So, how do you "get rid" of elitists who think they are hipper than others? Probably does more damage to the forum's brand than anything else.[/quote]


I am nether elitist or hip [very, very far from hip] :D

I would prefer if you would please refrain from insulting me.

Don't agree. Fine.

If its the dorks comment that bothered you. I meant people who post one item and are never heard of again. That is a dorky thing to do.

I stand by that opinion.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby 440ranch » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:58 pm

burke wrote:The forum existed for many, many years without a sale section. People came here to talk about congas, bongos, technique, teach, learn, share etc.

One dealer pushed for a 'for sale' section. Then got pissed off and pulled all his posts and disappeared.

We get contributing members who put stuff up. But mostly we get dorks who have no interest in the forum trying to unload overpriced 'treasures' or shit you can buy anytime on ebay or craigslist.

So yeah ... fucking right

'make it stop'



Let me tell you a story Burke. I recently went to a Poncho Sanchez concert, and I was particularly impressed with the family atmosphere there. Moms, Dads, Grandparents, kids. In fact, one young guy about 10 or 11 years old... wearing a black Guayaberra and white Kangol Conguero cap... He looked like a mini Poncho Sanchez. He had on his lap, (the entire evening) a head from one of his drums, obviously to get Ponchos autograph...you could tell this little guy was living his dream...and later after the show, I noticed that Poncho had autographed the drum head, and that kid was so proud. He was so happy... His Dad was beaming.

I think about that good kid, and that family reading your foul mouthed posts and it makes me cringe. It's rude and disrespectful of people and their culture.

And you think you're the one who is being insulted?
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby jorge » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:16 am

Instead of carrying on personal altercations that should be done privately and not on the forum, why don't people respond to the very serious proposal that is on the table to keep the "for sale" section but require that all participants who want to buy or sell identify themselves with real name, telephone number and email address? This would encourage honest business transactions and discourage the disrespectful, dishonest, self-promoting posturing and trolling that gets empowered by anonymity.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby burke » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:49 am

jorge wrote:Instead of carrying on personal altercations that should be done privately and not on the forum, why don't people respond to the very serious proposal that is on the table to keep the "for sale" section but require that all participants who want to buy or sell identify themselves with real name, telephone number and email address? This would encourage honest business transactions and discourage the disrespectful, dishonest, self-promoting posturing and trolling that gets empowered by anonymity.


Thank You Jorge,

I agree with both your points.

To quote from the "welcome" email that accompanied the creation of the new forum.

"This forum is NOT a free trading post, it's a community, which now has a 'for sale' section. For the benefit of contributing members."

By in large that has been the primary way its been used, but I think myself and others have noticed an increase of "disrespectful, dishonest, self-promoting" [again to quote Jorge] and I'm not the first mention discomfort with that.

I think both serious suggestions made to date [full disclosure of seller info and minimum posts] have merit. I know there was some doubt about the minimum posts being effective deterrent but it could be enough of a pain to discourage the worst offenders.

Darrell
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby rhythmrhyme » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:33 am

although a very low stakes issue for me, I will add that on another forum members need to make a minimum number of posts and then PM the mods for permission/access to a certain area. This takes some of the work out of it for the mods as they don't need to track everyone, just the people who PM for access.

the current for sale section doesn't really offend me but for folks move invested in this forum I can understand how a bit more control over it may improve their sense of community. the flip side being that it creates exclusivity as well

in terms of posting real name and contact info up on the forum, this is not something I would ever do. there are lots of other ways to sell stuff on-line where my anonymity is better protected, craigslist, ebay etc etc.
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Re: Getting rid of or changing the 'for sale' section

Postby jorge » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:36 am

Why would an honest person selling something of value for a fair price want to protect his or her anonymity?
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