Chtimulato wrote:I just noticed I posted this answer twice (this forum is sometimes mischievous), but couldn't find how to delete the supernumerary one...
But if you dare to divert from the «orthodox» pattern with a 16th note in the wrong way, the ancients will look daggers at you, and you’ll have the shame of your life.
Calinda/Calenda was a forbidden dance during slavery, because the settlers considered it was indecent.
And a fisherman just called the radio to tell he had some fresh fish left for sale, giving his address.
(check out the bramido, or « moose call »)
Did you get an error alert after pushing "submit"? If you repeat the submit action, you are double-posting. I would copy the content of the original post (for safety) and first check whether it appears when you open the thread. In most cases it's already there. But sometimes it happens that it isn't visible as the last or new post on the list.
So you are saying that Biguine is the actual rhythm rather than the overriding term for Martinican folklore music?
Does it refer to the musical rhythm or more the dance?
Was this the dance section that was originally taken out of the quadrille cycle? I know that music and dance are almost inseparable in Afro traditions, but there could be something like a primary connotation …
Firstly, I wouldn't be ashamed. If the veterans wanted me to play something different, I would just do it. Or I'd go home and do my own research in order to value their advice. You can't pretend being on their level, anyway; your lack of experience or maturity would show sooner or later. That's natural, and it would be immature on the side of the elders to not accept that. The demand for humility is probably part of an ancient educational system described by the German saying "Lehrjahre sind keine Herrenjahre" (apprenticeship years are not master years). I experienced this domineering attitude in Cuba as well, but I was old enough to know how to place it.
Secondly, I admit that I was thinking more of Calypso music than the Biguine. If I listen to the recordings of Lord Kitchener for example, the parts in the rhythm section differ enormously. Each tune has a slightly different movement, but on the whole, they are unmistakably identifiable as Calypsos. It appears to me that the rhythmic repertoire stems from the numerous cinquillo-based styles, of which there are examples also in Cuba (Makuta, Iyesá), although in Cuba, the single-bar cycles have to a greater extent evolved into two-bar patterns incorporating the clave. As long as the individual rhythmic elements come from that family, and as long as the constitutive markers are represented somewhere (like, somebody in the ensemble should be playing the darn "2+"), you are at least not going wrong.
What's also important in playing Calypso correctly, is that it has its own swing, meaning a minimal deviation from the quantified evenness of the rhythmic subdivisions. I'm talking about a micro-timing that cannot be notated, and in Calypso, it is very subtle. It isn't even as obvious as the jazz swing or the Brazilian balanço - a loose feeling coming from a homeopathic dose of triplet interpretation.
Maybe in Biguine the rules are stricter.
One last remark about Harry Belafonte vs. "the real thing": The truth is that back in the 1950's and 60's, a lot of the authentic Trini Calypso music hasn't been up to the level of U.S.-American musical craftsmanship. Correct intonation, and even rhythmical precision were rare qualities. In the U.S.A., it wouldn't have passed for acceptable music, except for a small group of folklore buffs. Same for older Haitian music or early New Orleans Jazz. The only Haitian orchestra that came close to U.S.-American standards had been the one of Issa El Saieh (where Bebo Valdés used to play the piano, at least occasionally). And what is "real"? I think that Harry Belafonte is pretty real, too - as is his music! It is what it is.
I really don't know how that connects to the martial dance of stick fighting. I did a lot of bookish studies, as opposed to travelling the world and experiencing everything first-hand. Which in this case was a necessity, because no living person can tell exactly what a Calinda (Calenda, Caringa, Carenga) looked like at the time it was forbidden. Those ancient rhythms, namely Calinda, Chica and Yuba (Djuba) remain something of a mystery yet to be solved.
They call it siyé in Haiti. There's a Vodou rhythm named "Kongo siyé", where the segon drum applies this effect as a regular sound element.
A busy YouTuber is a young man called Jeff Pierre. Although his obtrusive self-marketing goes on my nerves, he is a fantastic drummer who makes his drum talk
I must confess that I listened only to one of them
I used to hate it when the people [...] would send me their recordings, like: Listen to this, that's what we are going to play. So please excuse me!
What you call Konpa, I had formerly taken for Cadence. In the early 1980's I was acquainted with a group of Nigerians, and they loved to dance to the Tabou Combo and called it Cadence. Later on I learned that combos incorporating wind instruments were called "Mini Jazz". Bigger Bands were called "Jazz", like the band "Super Jazz des Jeunes".
An early version of "Choucoune" is by Emy de Pradines from 1953.
That woman had soul. […] Her singing touches me, I don't know why.
Another musical genre from Haiti that we haven't mentioned so far is Rara, featuring the eery sound of the vaccines (vaksines). It has a close connection to vodou and is performed in the streets. The etymological association with Rada, Arara and Gaga is not coincidential.
As to the folklore of Martinique, New-Orleans-style clarinet player Thomas L'Etienne in Hamburg has a knack for the old man Stellio, and he would bring in some traditional Biguines, like "Martinique trop belle", which I had known before by Loulou Boislaville (with the Groupe Folklorique Martiniquais). I played it wrong, anyway. I first got an idea of how to accompany Biguines through the drum book by Jean-Philippe Fanfant "Afro-Caribbean Grooves for Drumset".
For Mazurka, I also found this one on YouTube, where the drums are good to hear:
It sounds like a slow 3/4 with double-time feel to me. At first it was hard to indentify the meter in order to understand the phrasing.
The Biguine wabap has some nice piano guajeo playing, while I can't hear any "jazz" in it.
The percussion that goes along with the Quadrille examples, is pretty interesting. There's the tambourin that sounds like timpani sometimes, maracas (cha-cha?), and a triangle that reminds me of Brazilian Forrô, rhythmically.
And what is this huge reco-reco called? That's a strange playing technique on it.
And what language is that, kreyól?
Chtimulato wrote:An early version of "Choucoune" is by Emy de Pradines from 1953.
Did you notice the rhythm sounds rather tricky and hard to follow/play along on this version?
Chtimulato wrote:Another musical genre from Haiti that we haven't mentioned so far is Rara, featuring the eery sound of the vaccines (vaksines). It has a close connection to vodou and is performed in the streets. The etymological association with Rada, Arara and Gaga is not coincidential.
Rara, Rada (Vodú rhythm family) and Arará derive from Allada/Arada, a Beninese town. From what I’ve read.
Chtimulato wrote:I believe it’s also close to raborday / rabordaille. The only examples I could find sound a little bit too much "juvenile" to my ears. They have nothing to envy from rap or raggamuffin...
Chtimulato wrote:For Mazurka, I also found this one on YouTube, where the drums are good to hear:
Did you notice the "stop" on beat 2 at the end of every verse? It’s usually clearer to check out, because the musicians and dancers make a pause on beat 3.
Chtimulato wrote:I believe this tambourin is called « tambour di bas » (some exegetes claim it comes from « tambour de Basque » (kind of tambourin), others state it comes from « tambour de basse » (bass drum).
I like it anyway, because obviously human beings are listening to each other, trying to collaborate. In the age of music programming, something like this is rather precious.
The rhythm is so laid back, it makes you feel that life is basically easy (even if it's not).
Yes. John Santos told us the same.
What kind of rhythm or dance is that? I read about it in the context of vodou drumming. But isn't it more a secular affair?
That's interesting. It is probably based on the dancing. The name Mazurka comes from Masuria, a landscape in Poland. (Same with "Polonaise", "the Polish".)
Yes, I've read the same. They sometimes use it in vodou music, too.
As this is a conga drum forum, I would like to introduce a drummer called Peanuts Taylor from the Bahamas.
Even though Cuba is the homeland of the conga drum, there are other traditions that use the conga in their own way, for their own music. We've heard already one example in the quadrille-jazz fusion by Fal Frett from Martinique.
Chtimulato wrote:But it’s possible to play along nevertheless, one just needs to pay attention.
John Santos! Hats off once again.
I knew this video. Thanks anyway.
I once had a studio gig (not very professional, obviously), where a duo had produced some tracks and eventually got the idea that some percussion might fit well. Of course, the time wasn't exactly perfect. So I had to play on top of the beat to give the impression that they were hanging in my rhythm, and try to find a middle path that would still make all of their irregularities sound good - without letting my part waver audibly, at least not for the average listener. I made that somehow, but it could never have become perfect.
And he doesn't try to pretend that he is omniscient - a wonderful virtue among Latin percussion teachers.
Whatever he did, and no matter with whom, he always sounded great, warm, strong - and made the others sound great, too! There are not too many people on this planet that I would praise like this, and I can only recommend to any percussion student to ask him for a lesson (or two) …
We are lucky to have expert insiders like Chtimulato on board. It's been a lesson for me as well.
Chtimulato warned us about the likely addiction to Kompa. You were correct and I have been rather consumed by the style.
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