Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

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Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby Anonimo » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:06 pm

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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:28 am

Vintage is always worth less, because it is used, used is used, and it is not new. You never can get back the investment that you put into an instrument, ever, that is just the way it is. $600 for an old used bongo? No way, better deals exist for the same bongo every day. Why would I pay $450 for a bongo someone paid $200 for, used, that new went for $375? Just wait a while and you will get a similar deal. Deals happen in this global economy every day. I bought a 30 year old Valje bongo for $150. I bought a practically new SOS in cherry wood for $275. I got a 40 year old Valje tumba for $250. Old and used is not Brand new and never will be. I'm very happy for Jaun to restore that Requena, and I hope he keeps it forever, but over a thousand dollars? Two thousand? Seriously? Never! A rumbero pay that much for a requinto? Most rumberos I know can't rub 2 dimes together. No offense to Senor Juan and his beautiful and fantastic drum. As P.T. Barnum would say, a sucker born every minute, but the smart musician knows bongos and congas never appreciate in value. Just the way it is man...
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby Anonimo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:14 pm

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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby pcastag » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:02 pm

I think it really depends. Certain drums hold their value or appreciate. bought a set of SOS cherry wood drums new about 10 years ago, paid about 700 for them brand new, sold them maybe two years ago for 1500. Why? Price had gone up, waiting time, mine were aged and mint! Same thing with old cuban drums, I really don't know about the three grand for the reconditioned requena, but I will tell you that I'm willing to ( and have ) pay high dollar for quality vintage drums, I recently purchased a set of old cuban drums for 700, sent them off to Matt to redo which will probably cost me another 500, 1200 for a set of vintage mahogany cuban drums, made of wood you can't get anymore. To me that's a bargain, matt will charge about 1000 for a mahogany drum, so I'm completely happy. I've also got some screamin deals, 200 for a set of old mexican oak drums, 75 for an old oak gon bop, etc., just takes looking, but for quality high end vintage bongos and congas their definitely is a high end market AND people will pay.
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:12 pm

When I see all the drum business we do around here in this forum I always think of the "Antique Road Show (ARS)". How something that may not look that good could have all this value to somebody. Some of them folks bought the items they bring to the ARS at yard sales real cheap to later discover that the very same item has lot lot of value to $ome people willing to pay big buck$. To me the value and the price of something are two different things and ultimately the price of an item is the one that seller and buyer agree upon. Like the vintage set of walnut LP bongos I bought recently, the seller wanted $55.00 dollars and had them listed on craiglist for weeks until one day I decided to check out craiglslist around the area where my daughter goes to college because I go upthere often. When I saw the set I almost flipped I knew I had to have them. I knew the value of the set was more than $55.00 dollars but the seller and buyer (myself) agreed that the price of the bongos for our transanction was $55.00. Right now I could turn around that very same set and sell it with a good profit margin; but is not going to happen because this vintage LP bongo sets have a lot of sentimental value to me. The value of that set to me is way more than the price most people are willing to pay for the set. As a matter of fact I may just do like the Pharaoh when I check-out I want the set in the casket with me I got to take them to the after life............. :)
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Value

Postby windhorse » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:32 pm

What is it that makes a thing have value?
Let’s talk about real value.

I remember my childhood, when I would see a band or group play music, and think to myself.. “Wow! I wish I could do that! It’ll never happen.. No way could I ever be so disciplined, or spend the amount of time playing that stuff that I could ever be good enough that others would want to hear it.”
Fast forward to last night’s gig at Naropa, when Nii Armah Sowah had his choir standing up front, and he informed the crowd, all there to support Haitian Relief & to enjoy some killer music, and all sitting in rows, “Everyone stand up! All around the world, people work hard all day and go home to their families and communities at night and PARTICIPATE in music. EVERYONE gets involved. It makes them feel better, and they wake up the next day feeling good. Being involved is PART of the music. You should all sing, dance, and smile!”
His paraphrased speech reflects something I’ve thought about for a some time. The change of perception I have of what it means to be a musician, and what music means to me and my community.
In my Tennessean aristocratic upbringing, you would only share information, play music, sports, or whatever it was, only after careful consideration and finely tuned expertise, or suffer the maximum penalty of scrutiny by all the “central scrutinizers” that permeate Southern culture.
If you bought an instrument, it would be the best and cost the most. If you wanted to play, you payed money and got lessons from the most reputable source. And it would be expensive! You would be placed on a pedestal for all to see, but no one got close enough to know you.
What a crazy weird culture!

Now that I play drums and Afro-Caribbean music, I have come to know the people, the song, and the instruments. In contrast with aristocracy, they are roughly hewn, but FILLED WITH HEART!

I know a millionaire who pays a local expert in the Afro-Cuban traditions and music a great deal of money, but he has not gotten very far. It’s a good thing that those with the money share, and join in some of the most heart-felt music on earth, but I don’t know that it really makes it to his heart. He still plays stiffly and doesn’t seem to “get it”.

I heard of a famous musician going to Cuba to get with an elder who a friend said was avoiding the man’s insistent house calls because “he was there to try to steal his soul.”
What people are really after with music is to reach way inside and bare their soul with others. It’s a form of love. This is REAL VALUE.
It doesn’t have a price tag.
The best musicians in Cuba play hand made boxes and really shoddy drums, compared to collectors here in the states, but they are completely happy to make that duct-taped head thump out the rhythm right alongside all the poor folk singing and dancing through the night.
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby Anonimo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:40 pm

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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:14 pm

You got to be on the look out in places like pawn shops, goodwill - salvation army stores, state auctions etc. Like they said "some people's rubbish is other people's treasure".
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby Joseph » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:09 am

Value is a relative equation in transactions between buyer & seller.

A key factor for each side of that equation is information.

The ideal transaction is a meeting of the minds, both sides agree.
RitmoBoricua wrote:To me the value and the price of something are two different things and ultimately the price of an item is the one that seller and buyer agree upon. Like the vintage set of walnut LP bongos I bought recently, the seller wanted $55.00 dollars and had them listed on craiglist for weeks until one day I decided to check out craiglslist around the area where my daughter goes to college because I go upthere often. When I saw the set I almost flipped I knew I had to have them. I knew the value of the set was more than $55.00 dollars but the seller and buyer (myself) agreed that the price of the bongos for our transanction was $55.00. Right now I could turn around that very same set and sell it with a good profit margin; but is not going to happen because this vintage LP bongo sets have a lot of sentimental value to me.

An example of meeting of the minds. However RitmoBoricua possessed the added info that the bongo was immediately worth more…info the seller didn’t have. The seller got his price & RitmoBoricua got a good deal.


leedy2 wrote:I have seen used bongos that have gone up for sale and mind that it was a toy not a real bongos $3000.00 just because it belonged to Ringo Starr.There is a photo of Marlow Brando around of him playing a Vergara set of bongos ,that bongos went a an auction house in NY for $10.000.00

An example of a market-maker, aggregators of information. They market specifically to the crowd who is willing to pay premium prices for “collectable value”. Bear in mind that the auction house takes a sizable chunk of the final sales price in commission at auctions like these. Without the documentable proof of ownership information that most assuredly accompanies the Ringo or Brando bongos at sales like these, as well as the marketing expertise of the auction house in selling that sentimental value, those same bongos might have ended up on eBay after being bought at an estate sale or yard sale for a few hundred bucks.

Collector value and functional value are two different things.

Pysch1 said in another thread:
"...Tony Stern had a great line in one of his blogs, "I wish the collectors would go back to collecting watches and leave the instruments to the musicians...."

I own my drums for functional value, I'm under no illusions that they are appreciating assets.

windhorse wrote:The best musicians in Cuba play hand made boxes and really shoddy drums, compared to collectors here in the states, but they are completely happy to make that duct-taped head thump out the rhythm right alongside all the poor folk singing and dancing through the night.

Now that's value! :wink:
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby Psych1 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:38 am

mikemorgon wrote:hi,i want to buy a new insturment ,so please give me the information of good instrument ,Which instument is the best so u can give me the advice of every instrument.and how are method use to purchase .


Hey! Thanks for your post - it just got me to reread this super thread. Terrific comments guys.
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby pcastag » Mon May 09, 2011 2:57 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:Vintage is always worth less, because it is used, used is used, and it is not new. You never can get back the investment that you put into an instrument, ever, that is just the way it is. $600 for an old used bongo? No way, better deals exist for the same bongo every day. Why would I pay $450 for a bongo someone paid $200 for, used, that new went for $375? Just wait a while and you will get a similar deal. Deals happen in this global economy every day. I bought a 30 year old Valje bongo for $150. I bought a practically new SOS in cherry wood for $275. I got a 40 year old Valje tumba for $250. Old and used is not Brand new and never will be. I'm very happy for Jaun to restore that Requena, and I hope he keeps it forever, but over a thousand dollars? Two thousand? Seriously? Never! A rumbero pay that much for a requinto? Most rumberos I know can't rub 2 dimes together. No offense to Senor Juan and his beautiful and fantastic drum. As P.T. Barnum would say, a sucker born every minute, but the smart musician knows bongos and congas never appreciate in value. Just the way it is man...


Wrong, I bought my cherry skin on skin congas for 670 about 12 years ago, sold them about four years ago for 1500. Good thing you found those drums for those prices, and yes maybe the cats you jam with don't have cash, but there's plenty of people out there that do and will spend money on well preserved vintage drums, just like gretsch drums and ludwigs. Deals are always around, but not always the norm either.
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon May 09, 2011 4:37 am

Like PT Barnum, sucker born every minute!
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby GuruPimpi » Mon May 09, 2011 9:01 am

I'm a fan of vintage, may be cause i like history and sometimes i wish that things could speak. To me, many vintage things are too expensive, possibly cause many people appreciate similar things like me and those who can put a tag with a price on it...
In a way, I agree with all of you, but interesting point that BNB put out...I kind of dig it... Attachment towards material things with emotions can put you in expensive situation.
I don't like art work to become more expensive, after the creatoris dead, it is disrespectful to creator...
Capitalism is not theway, it's just one of theways, and just because we are deep in it, it doesn't mean it is the right way.
Collectors of Bantu or Cuban art make the culture closed, not open.

just my 2 cents

without disrespect to anyone's opinion here... Enjoy the music!

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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby pcastag » Sat May 14, 2011 7:58 pm

bongosnotbombs wrote:Like PT Barnum, sucker born every minute!


Nope, just people who appreciate quality and are willing to pay for it. Don't know exactly what you use your drums for but some people need high quality good looking instruments for gigs. I'm not really interested in showing up for a casual where I'm getting paid 300 for somebody's wedding with some old beat up drumkit. Maybe if you're riding around SF on your bike playing congas and bongos it doesn't matter, but some people actually get paid good money for gigs and want to look and sound professional. Guess it's just all in your perspective and what you need your instruments for and what you're willing to pay, however calling someone who spent a pretty penny on a great instrument a sucker is somewhat insulting.
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Re: Sales of your instruments or buying quality instruments

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon May 16, 2011 4:17 am

Well I bought brand new SOS drums in cherry about two years ago, and they get ridden on my bike to paid gigs every week and they still look as new as the day I bought them. I paid $1500 for 2 brand new SOS, the same price as those 8 year old ones you sold 4 years ago. Basically someone paid current new prices for 8 year old drums 4 years ago, that I just don't understand. I bought a 6 month old SOS bongo for $275. New prices should get a new drum, used drums should get used prices.
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