congas - tycoons

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Postby umannyt » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:26 am

yambu321 wrote:OH YEAH, I SEE!

PEARL"S, SOUND LIKE TOCA'S,
TOCA'S SOUND LIKE MEINL'S,
MEINL'S, SOUND LIKE GON BOP'S TUMBAO PRO'S,
WHICH ALSO SOUND LIKE TYCOONS, LP'S, AND SO ON.

GIVE IT ANOTHER THOUGHT, OR TWO. ???

CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO

Charlie,

I think you misunderstood me, bro!

My understanding is that LP subcontracted/subcontracts the manufacturing of most of their percussion instruments to Tycoon. Now, Tycoon has decided to come up with their own percussion products under their own brand.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Therefore, specifically re: congas, the woods (either Rubber Wood or White Ash) and the skins (water buffalo) should be the same. There might be some minor design difference(s) as far as how high or low the belly of the drums are.

Thus, my conclusion that both Tycoons and LPs, wood and skin being equal, should sound generally the same.
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Postby umannyt » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:14 am

Charlie,

Btw, I never intended to reach the conclusion, as you've previously stated, that:

"PEARL"S, SOUND LIKE TOCA'S,
TOCA'S SOUND LIKE MEINL'S,
MEINL'S, SOUND LIKE GON BOP'S TUMBAO PRO'S,
WHICH ALSO SOUND LIKE TYCOONS, LP'S, AND SO ON."

It is "non sequitur" or does not logically follow.

Pearl, Meinl and Gon Bops (I believe) and LP each have their own factories in Thailand. They don't share manufacturing facilities with one another.

Toca, though, being a Kaman company, shares the same factory as LP and LP is made by the same factory that manufactures Tycoon. Haven't you noticed that many Tycoon conga models, in fact, closely resemble LPs--much more than any other brand?




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Postby yambu321 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:29 am

???



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Postby umannyt » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:39 am

???



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Postby umannyt » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:03 am

:;):



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Postby Zig » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:07 pm

JohnnyConga wrote:chek these "reptile" congas out at Tycoon congas..."JC" Johnny Conga... :D

Hello people

I don't post often but I gotta say I'm lovin those reptile things.

It's a shame about the fall out on this post but it seems to me this sort of thing happens on all forums and is just a reflection of human nature.
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Postby Congadelica » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:16 pm

Yeah them reptiles are mean ass looking Congas .

Hey good to see another UK Brother here .

marco
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Postby Zig » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:03 pm

Thanks for the welcome Marco :)
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Postby Gallichio » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:39 pm

umannyt,
The drums sounded different to me , Could it have anything to do with the room I played them in? Also all Heads are not the same thickness.




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Postby umannyt » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:47 pm

Zig wrote:It's a shame about the fall out on this post but it seems to me this sort of thing happens on all forums and is just a reflection of human nature.

Hi Zig,

I guess I'm still subscribed to CongaForum. Oh, well...

You're quite astute in your observation about web forums reflecting human nature.

People who really know me consider me a very mild person and someone who's very easy to get along with. In fact, I like to joke and tease a lot!

Unfortunately, communicating by email oftentimes doesn't always accurately convey one's mood(s) when doing so. Thus, it's oftentimes easy for one to be misjudged and one's writing to be taken out of context.

Anyway, warm welcome to you! :D
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Postby umannyt » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:04 pm

Gallichio wrote:umannyt,
The drums sounded different to me , Could it have anything to do with the room I played them in? Also all Heads are not the same thickness.

Gallichio,

I'm sorry if I sounded vague with my point. In no way did I mean to be simplistic about it.

To reiterate, based on what I've read that Tycoons have long been LP's subcontractor, my point was that--ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (same rubber wood and same buffalo skins, and yes including thickness)--they should GENERALLY (NOT EXACTLY) sound the same, to put it positively. Putting it negatively therefore, their sounds shouldn't be THAT MUCH different. It could sometimes even be like splitting hair.

Interestingly, Rebongo (Thanks, Rebongo!) recently posted this comment comparing Meinl's most expensive, top-of-the-line Woodcraft congas with their significantly cheaper Luis Conte congas (http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin/board ... =14;t=3797): "I play Meinl Woodcraft, but when I compared Woodcraft with Luis Conte, the difference was very little!"

So, yes, the acoustic properties of a room and the thickness of the head are variables that would make comparison of EVEN SIMILAR congas as being "apples and oranges". :D




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Postby bongosnotbombs » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:28 pm

umannyt wrote:My understanding is that LP subcontracted/subcontracts the manufacturing of most of their percussion instruments to Tycoon. Now, Tycoon has decided to come up with their own percussion products under their own brand.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Therefore, specifically re: congas, the woods (either Rubber Wood or White Ash) and the skins (water buffalo) should be the same. There might be some minor design difference(s) as far as how high or low the belly of the drums are.

Thus, my conclusion that both Tycoons and LPs, wood and skin being equal, should sound generally the same.

This is really an oversimplified theory. There are many variables which you left out. Just because 2 designs share two characteristics it can no way be theorized that they both generally have the same sound, beyond sounding "like a congas".

(not mentioning the empirical evidence provided)

Skins, Tycoon and Lp may use the same animal. It is quite possible they use different thicknesses and qualities of skin.

Wood. I am assuming that the Tycoons are plied. Ply's have more than one layer. Wood also comes in different grades and qualities. LP's and Tycoon's may use different qualities and grades of the same species wood in their plied construction.

Even if the wood and the skin were exactly the same there are still several designfeatures which make a conga sound the way it does.

Overall design. The pictures I have seen show Tycoon with the belly placed in a higher position, which is a major design variation and would affect the sound.

Other things such as dimensions; i.e. height and width, shape of the bearing edge, thickness of the shell would all have an effect on the sound character and resonance of a particular drum.

A modern Gon Bops, a Valje, a Sol, a vintage Gon Bops and a Resolution can all be made from the same wood (oak) and have the same skin. Many of the same craftsmen were involved in different degrees with making Valje, Sol, Resolution and the DW Gon Bops, yet they all have their unique sounds

In design and construction it is frequently the case that the small details are become the most important.

As architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe said "God is in the details."




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Postby umannyt » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:38 pm

BNB,

My words:

>Thus, my conclusion that both Tycoons and LPs, wood and skin being equal, should sound GENERALLY the same.

Your words:

>This is really an oversimplified theory. There are many variables which you left out. Just because 2 designs share two characteristics it can no way be theorized that they will be IDENTICAL.

My innocent question: When and where did I ever claim that both Tycoons and LPs sounded IDENTICAL?

"Identical": "exactly alike; incapable of being perceived as different." (wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)




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Postby bongosnotbombs » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:04 am

Sure thing, I edited the post to more closely reflect your words.
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Postby umannyt » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:31 am

BNB,

Also, you MAY have missed the qualification I made to Gallichio following my so-called "oversimplified theory".

I said:

"I'm sorry if I sounded vague with my point. In no way did I mean to be simplistic about it.

"To reiterate, based on what I've read that Tycoons have long been LP's subcontractor, my point was that--ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (same rubber wood and same buffalo skins, and yes including thickness)--they should GENERALLY (NOT EXACTLY) sound the same, to put it positively. Putting it negatively therefore, their sounds shouldn't be THAT MUCH different. It could sometimes even be like splitting hair."

Furthermore, I said:

"Interestingly, Rebongo (Thanks, Rebongo!) recently posted this comment comparing Meinl's most expensive, top-of-the-line Woodcraft congas with their significantly cheaper Luis Conte congas (http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin/board ... =14;t=3797): "I play Meinl Woodcraft, but when I compared Woodcraft with Luis Conte, the difference was very little!"

My innocent rhetorical question: How is this possible?

You said:

"In design and construction it is frequently the case that the small details are become the most important."

My response:

This is definitely nothing new to me. As I've narrated in at least one of my prior posts, I was the General Manager (for 9 years) of our more than 100-person family-owned car parts OEM corporation overseas, before I (reluctantly) agreed to settle with my American wife here in the U.S. As I've also said earlier, Architecture was my childhood passion and my original career goal (although I ended up being both an Economist and an Accountant). This should say that I know "something" about design and construction.

Currently, in addition to being a professional vocalist and instrumentalist, I also own a small sound system equipment rental company and am a sound engineer. This, in turn, should say that I know "something" about the subtle nuances of sound (on the one hand) and the relative limitations of the human ear for perceiving the full spectrum of sound (on the other).

While I agree with you and architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe that "God is in the details", there's likewise wisdom in the saying, "Let's not sweat the details." Because, "Too much analysis causes paralysis." :;): :D




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