Age limits? - Old dogs, new tricks

[Cohiba]

To become a great, great Conga Player must you have been playing from a very young age like a virtuoso pianist? Can someone become something more than compentant in say, ten years? Or is all just about individual ability?

[ABAKUA]

If instructed properly from a young age, and from a young age you practise and show dicipline, then yes it helps you become more profficient alot earlier in life


However, its all up to the individuals effort over time.
The more you practise correctly, the better you get, like anything.

Example, I know some percussionists who have been playing since being a child, and are now in their 50's however they completely suck at playing congas because they never practise nor bothered to learn how to play properly and show no disipline because they never took what they do seriously.
Or you have others which got to a level of skill and stopped practising and studying, thinking they were Anga or something like that, however in reality, their skills were intermediate if that even, yet because they have been playing for over 30 years think they are better than everyone else till someone comes along and puts them in their place.


I was always around percussion in my early years, though got serious at age 17, Im now almost 30 and regard myself to be profficient in what I do, however I always try to practise at least 2hrs a day apart from the rehearsals I do with my band which is from 10am to 6pm every Thursday and Friday. Then we usually gig through the whole weekend.

One is always developing ones self, you get back what you put in.

[Cohiba]

Many thanks for confirming what I'd hoped, I am a beginner in serious technique at 25 but have been interested for many years more, and have played Bongo and other Cuban percussion for a couple of years. I wish that I had had the opportuninty to learn when I was much younger.

One good thing about being this age is that I am dedicated completley to it as I know I will always love Cuban music and always enjoy the feeling of playing it, the stress release it gives me after being at work allday and the focus and balance it brings to my mind.

[ABAKUA]

Sounds like you are on the right path, the secret to arriving and staying and the destination is "practise, practise, practise" and then once you have practised, you must practise. :p

Are you taking lessons with an accomplished percussionist or self learning?



Edited By ABAKUA on 1118316845

[Cohiba]

Most of what I know practically is from books or dvd's and just listening to great music. I have had a few one to one lessons with a professional on a holiday to Cuba but I definatley need a local teacher or class because I know books can only take you so far..

[yoni]

Hi ABAKUA, Welcome, Cohiba!

Cohiba, I second ABAKUA's words entirely. Especially where he says: "you get back what you put in."

Improving, advancing, is just a matter of doing it. Reaching very high levels can even be said to be a matter of obsession. I played for some months with two Turkish ultra-virtuosos on darbuka, Ahmet and Levent Misirli, two brothers. These guys, in their 20s at the time, played 15 hours every day. No, I'm not exaggerating. Each has a disc or two out and if you hear them you will know that few, if any, come even close to their level. These guys were just mad, absolutely possessed, and had no families/kids to look after. I was quite obsessed myself then and in other periods (still am, I admit), and will usually spend several hours daily drumming, but I have no set schedule, and sometimes a day or two may pass where I'll hardly play at all. But those two brothers put a "virus" in me, as did Giovanni Hidalgo when I met him some years before at a jazz fest we both performed in... I basically can't stop playing. At almost 47 I seem to have at least as much enthusiasm for it as I did at 16.

Luckily, I've met other musicians here of similar intensity - last night with a super-virtuoso on violin and oud I played an all - night gig then did a recording session that finished about 9:00 am. He also can't stop playing, and it shows. My girlfriend wasn't too thrilled about her night alone, but hey, she knew I was a nut case from the get-go.

Musical artistry probably can't be rated by anything but taste, but as far as technique goes one thing is sure -
the more you do it, the better you get.

All the best,
Yonatan Bar Rashi



Edited By yoni on 1118332269

[yoni]

Oh, and by the way, my dad once told me that the composer Paderewski began playing piano at age 45!

It's NEVER too late!

[Raymond]

I ditto what Abakua says but there always those who have the natural ability to grasp something better than others and to excel better than others....Example could be a Giovanni Hidalgo who is a virtuoso...Not everybody who does what Giovanni did could become a virtuoso. This is not intended to be something to discourage but to motivate you to continue when you encounter blocks which by the way happen often and in my opinion the best thing that could happen to you to continue to improve...

The important thing is to practice, know your limitations and work at them....Most percussionists, like with other professions or craft, reach a level and they do not continue to pursue getting more profficient. We get content with what we do because it could be sufficient to do what we need to do. We all suffer from that...Others continue the long path of always trying to learn and improve forever...

Is never too late although it helps to start at a young age when your senses are much better....Don't give up..

Saludos!

[Ivan]

Ditto to everyone...

I would also add that it is a good idea to practice to CD's... Especially if you are not training with someone one on one. I suggest to start listening to some of the old Montunos of New York musicians and then progress to the faster newer stuff. I am assuming you are wanting to get in to Latin Music... ???

Some good music to practice to are:

Roberto Roena Y Su Nuevo Montuno 1976
Eddie Palmieri Molasses and Mozambique
Bobby Valentine - Algo Nuevo
Ray Barretto - Descarga Criolla

When practicing, to get me warmed I'll pop in a CD and play to it lick for lick - then I start my rudiments. Also, hook up with some other percussionists on your same level to just jam.

Personally, like Raymond suggested - I go in cycles... There are moments since I've started playing professionally where I hit a wall and I have to retrain myself only to grow a little more. There are also those moments where I see young kids playing like Giovanni where I end up going home to cry...

All in all, you can only grow if you keep an open mind/heart and learn to take criticism - trust me, you will get nowhere if you beleive you are done learning.

Good Luck and also monitor the Video,DVD section of this forum. Sometimes you will come accross some great instructional videos,dvds or cds...

[davidpenalosa]

I started on congas relatively "late". When I was 21 years old I walked into the percussion class at my college telling the teacher "I want to learn percussion". He told me "you are 15 years too late!". I was a little disappointed, but I didn't believe him. Fortunately, I saw a flyer for conga lessons by Kim Atkinson and I called Kim.

I'm 49 now and Afro-Cuban percussion has been a big part of my life, teaching, performing, producing. I think it's important to learn proper technique and timing early on. Good luck! It's lots of fun.

-David

[Diceman]

Cohiba,
I second all the above, and remember the three Ps, practice, practice and more practice. For me, it turns having to think of where and how to put my hands, into being a spectator, just listening to what your muscles are doing, and only practice and repetition does that. Again, get technique and the basic sounds right at the beginning and you wont do any harm getting in touch with Robin Jones at Pro Percussion or Bosco D'Oliveira for a bit of Brazilian influence. Both in London.
And finally, get a good hat !!
Sabor
Diceman

[Cohiba]

:D The hat I got!

Thank's very much for all this great advice guys.
I will definatley try for some more one to one lessons but financial and time constraints may hinder that for now, anyway I do find time every day to play in some capacity, lucky Iv'e got a basement which means I can play whenever.

It is mostly along to cd's like IVAN says because it really inspires me but sometimes I get too carried away with the music and am probably not listening to myself too good, thinking I am jamming with Eddie Palmieri or Rey Roig y Su Sensacion :laugh:

And YONI I totally identify with that obsessiveness, I drive people mad at work, at the dinner table or wherever practiscing a Tumbao or Guaguanco. I feel I was born with a feel for rhythm and have been involved in music one way or another since childhood, I'm playing catch-up for the many lost years that I should have been doing this.

Regards to all.

[ABAKUA]

While financially it could be difficult to pay for lessons, be careful with self learning, very easy to pick up bad habits/wrong technique/incorrect excecution of patterns, without an experienced teacher to guide you and correct you, it is very easy to do yourself more bad than good. The learning stage is where you either lose or create the bad habits that will define your playing for years to come.

Of course without seeing you play/knowing you, it is difficult to say whether you are playing correctly or even if you need lessons or if its just practise and development that you need.

Either way, keep up the enthusiasm and dedication!



Edited By ABAKUA on 1118390287

[Cohiba]

be careful with self learning, very easy to pick up bad habits/wrong technique/incorrect excecution of patterns, without an experienced teacher to guide you and correct you, it is very easy to do yourself more bad than good.

It does worry me that I could mis-interpret some of the language used in the theory books. I played on bongo for a year and kept getting strains in my left hand before I realised my technique was slightly wrong.

[ABAKUA]

Please dont take offence with what Im about to type, I mean it in the humblest and kindest way...

Judging by what you wrote above re the strains for a year before you realised it was bad technique...

I think you should get a few lessons asap before you create more bad habits.. You will need to "unlearn" bad habits and learn the correct way, thus being more difficult for your journey.

I always think playing tumbas is like a man rowing a boat against the flow of the current, if he stops even for just a moment, it takes a long time to get back to where you were...

Those who wish to know the path through the mountains, must first ask those who have already trodden it.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1118391955