Rumba Tonada

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Rumba Tonada

Postby Laurent Lamy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:30 am

I woul'd like to start a topic on Rumba Tonada : rhythms, songs and all about...

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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby ABAKUA » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:15 pm

Laurent Lamy wrote:I woul'd like to start a topic on Rumba Tonada : rhythms, songs and all about...

ZunZun


ok.. So did you want to start discussing anything in particular to begin with?
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:03 pm

You can hear a version of rumba tonado on the CD Sacred Rhythms by Grupo Ilu Aña (Bembe 2001). From the liner notes:

"..tonada, according to Jose Pilar...is a style that came to Cuba from Spain and gained popularity in Oriente province during the 30s and 40s. The tonada.. was originally an acapella form that was performed by trio or quartet of singers. It usually told a story, or took the form of a poem following a specific melodic and harmonic formula. These tonada groups often engaged in friendly competition in local bars or social clubs, the contestants being judged on cleverness of story line and musical originality. This is in many ways similar to the coro y clave groups of Havana and Matanzas provinces, or calypsonians of Trinidad and Tobago.

A rumba tonada is a hybrid of the original tonada that includes the introduction of drums and percussion. This particular rumba is performed in a style called Trinidad", because it comes from the town of Trinidad in eastern Cuba. A strong 12/8 feel with very simple parts and the middle pitched drum as the lead or solo instrument gives this style a distinctively 'laid-back' feel."—Michael Spiro, Scott Wardinsky, Andy Schloss (1995)

They use the standard 12/8 bell pattern and the quinto plays in a manner very similar to the abakua bonko, even more so than is typical of columbia quinto.

You can hear a faster rumba tonada "Tonadas Trinitarias" on the CD Songs and Rhythms. "Tonada Guaguancó Para Celina" by Clave Y Guaguanco on the CD Noche De La Rumba (1999) has a rumba tonada intro, but soon moves into a guaguanco. There are several examples of non-rumba tonadas on the CD La musica del pueblo de cuba.
-David
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Laurent Lamy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:42 pm

Yes, The improvisations Reminds me the phrases of the bonko enchemiya in the abakua. did anybody have the score ?

Here's the version I have :

Clave Afro:

123456I123456
x.x.xx .x.x..

Tumbador:

123456I123456
pddpddIpddpOO
LLRLRLIRLRLRL

Quinto (*):

123456I123456
o.ppppIo.pppp
L.LRLRIL.LRLR
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:22 pm

Thanks for posting that Laurent. I don't have any scores as I have not investigated this rhythm.
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Laurent Lamy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:57 pm

My pleasure Dave !!!!
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby windhorse » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:28 pm

Okay, today I'm enjoying a day off, and messing around with my voice in garage band. I recorded a quick little sound clip of myself doing a mono version of "Ken Keni Gu Mar".
I played clave and sang the fundamental, then did the 3rd and 5ths, then the Akpon.
I love this simple song.. And it's an easy one to sing and play with clave.

http://mrcrowder.us/cong/Ken-Keni%20Gu%20Mar.mp3
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Light Seeker » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:52 pm

I'm not sure of the relevance of this, but I have an entire album of tonadas trinitarias by Conjunto Folklorico de Trinidad, appropriately titled "Tonadas Trinitarias". The bell pattern in all of the songs is like the African 6/8 bell pattern, but it is played in 4/4, like so:

1234/1234/1234/1234
X--X --XX --X- X---

Is this something different from a rumba tonada?
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby windhorse » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:06 pm

Laurent Lamy wrote:Here's the version I have :

Clave Afro:

123456I123456
x.x.xx .x.x..

Tumbador:

123456I123456
pddpddIpddpOO
LLRLRLIRLRLRL

Quinto (*):

123456I123456
o.ppppIo.pppp
L.LRLRIL.LRLR


We do the clave the same,
but the low drum plays:

123456I123456
htshooIhtsb--
LLRLRRILLRL--

That way there's a huge gap left on that last - should I say - non-beat of clave.

The high drum plays 16ths in a four four feel on the 1 and 3 of a four pulse clave. Right with the shaker.
Then, the quinto is all about being soft, elegant, and sparse.. The whole thing's played at Yambu speeds.
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Laurent Lamy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:50 pm

I haven't this cd but I think there is rumba tonada in "Clave y Guaguancó - NOCHE DE LA RUMBA"

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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:06 pm

My take is that the selections by Conjunto Folklorico de Trinidad (thanks for bringing that record to my attention) are another arrangement of rumba tonada. Columbia has a lot of different arrangements using triple or duple-pulse patterns and I suspect that rumba tonada is the same. For example, the standard bell pattern is played mostly in 12/8 for columbia, but it's also played in 4/4 in some obscure arrangements. The same goes for playing the pattern when accompanying bata drums with an achere.
-David
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Light Seeker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:34 am

I spoke to my friend Johnny Frias, who has been doing research in Cuba about Tonadas Trinitarias. I showed him the liner notes that David posted about rumba tonada, specifically the part which states that tonadas trinitarias are a form of rumba tonada. I first asked him if there was a relation between the two, and he said (the following is copied and pasted from an online chat):

"well not really
rumba tonada is rumba mixed with the tonada from the countryside
tonadas trinitarias are a different genre from the tonada in the countryside"


Then I showed him the cd liner notes that David posted, specifically the part that says that Trinitarias are a form of rumba tonada, to which he said:

"interesting
but wrong
the rumba tonada is a new hybrid genre
the tonada trinitaria is not rumba... it has existed since the 1850s
wow they have it quite mixed up in that definition
it's because not much has been written or documented on the tonada trinitaria"


And I finally looked online to hear some samples of the rumba tonada, and it really sounds nothing at all like a tonada trinitaria.
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby davidpenalosa » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:06 am

Light Seeker wrote:...they have it quite mixed up in that definition it's because not much has been written or documented on the tonada trinitaria"[/i]


I appreciate this information very much. Just to be clear, the source that said that the style of rumba tonada performed on Sacred Rhythms is called "Trinitarian" is Cuban folklorist Jose Pilar. I'm not saying that it's correct, but conflicting information from "authentic sources" is quite common. What type of music is tonada trinitaria? Is it similar to cajon pa'los muertos?
-David
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby Light Seeker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:26 am

I'm afraid that might just be my mistake. I think I misread the part of the liner notes that says the rumba is performed in a style called "Trinidad". Tonadas Trinitarias is a genre that came out of the city of Trinidad. You can download the album "Tonadas Trinitarias" by Conjunto Folklorico de Trinidad, as well as read an article about the genre, here: http://esquinarumbera.blogspot.com/2008 ... arias.html

Sorry for unintentionally hijacking this thread... I was just wondering if there was a relation between the two genres. Apparently there isn't. Continue on with the rumba tonada discussion! :)
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Re: Rumba Tonada

Postby guarachon63 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:33 am

I have a feeling much confusion is caused by the fact that "tonada" means simply "tune" or "melody" in Spanish, and when used in a folkloric context it (perhaps understandably) tends to get associated with the genre known as "Tonada Trinitaria" when an association may not exist, other than that they both contain melodies.

Laurent, I am curious what recorded examples you are using for reference?

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