leedy2 wrote:jorge wrote:leedy2 wrote:with all do respect when playing with 3, 4 congas (no hay Afinque)
Leedy2, I agree with you that lots of players who play 3 or more drums lack cadencia y afinque. But that is a characteristic of the players, not the number of drums. There is a tendency for some inexperienced players to jump to 3 or 4 drums before they have mastered playing with swing and cadencia on one or 2 drums, and they just keep on playing raggedy like that or get worse, substituting the novelty of multiple different tones for accurate timing and swing. Even so, there are definitely players who play 3 or more drums well who play con mucho afinque. Examples are Juan Bravo of Orquesta Ritmo Oriental, Daniel Ponce in his early recordings with Puntilla (before he tried playing "salsa"), Joel Driggs with early Rumbavana and Van Van. Even Giovanni Hidalgo and Anga, who are (were) all over 5 drums with tremendous chops, could play afinque on 3 -5 drums when they chose to. But all these guys mastered the basics on congas and/or bata before they went to 3 or more congas. Regarding Mongo's tuning, I don't think he tuned his conga particularly high, just high enough to get that killer seco.
Examples are Juan Bravo of Orquesta Ritmo Oriental, Daniel Ponce in his early recordings with Puntilla (before he tried playing "salsa"), Joel Driggs with early Rumbavana and Van Van. Even Giovanni Hidalgo and Anga, who are (were) all over 5 drums with tremendous chops, could play afinque on 3 -5 drums
jorge
All of these guys that you mention are what is called free spirit musicians or as know (Latin Jazz)and they are very good at what they do.They play more effect's, so as the they play the carry a note to an other drum like mathematic's that you carry a number. When you put them to play salsa or any music related to this they are lost and let me explain lost. Not that they play wrong they can not play with 2 drum to be tight with rest of band's percussion section or better to say they are playing stress.Here I posted a video with Giovanni you can see that he is lost with out 3rd drum he was forced to play here with 2 drum.Note as you hear this video note he miss or changes beat around that's is his confusion look for 3rd drum it not timing. And this happens to all that want to play with a 3rd drum when face to play salsa aplomada or to say tight, afincado .On video you see Johnny tell gio stay there and he is also stressed playing bell note.Mongo had a very unusual way of playing and tuned his drum a bit high and that was more due to way that he played ,his hands were small and fat so when he hit drums the bounce of drum and that was why you hear loud slap and drum sound low .
leedy2 wrote:jorge wrote:Hi Leedy2,
Where did you post that video of Geovanni? I couldn't find it in this thread.
Also, when you say "All of these guys that you mention are what is called free spirit musicians or as know (Latin Jazz)and they are very good at what they do." are you including all bongo players playing son or salsa (not latin jazz) as "free spirit musicians"? Are you saying that the bongo in son or salsa can't play afinque because that part is improvising (within clave)?
Jorge:
Luis:
The Giovanni video it not letting me copy it in a dvd call "El numero 100 '' by Tito Puente were gio is playing with 2 drum and you see when he lift his left hand to hit drum on left but there is no drum it show him off for a bit.
NO let me explain when these guy are playing latin jazz note clash all over but it blends because latin jazz is improvisational music . know when it come to salsa or son there is a pattern to this music for example when you play a guaguanco versus guaracha it has different aspects to it. A guajira and a cha cha but does any one play it? No. In todays music there is more showboating than detail of music that why every thing sounds the same.Today many bongos players and I include my self I see my self doing it also just follow the flow at times " A martillo when play it's like conga ,timbales they have a slap at end of there verse but how many do it"?.
Know with that said with note missing and over play of notes can you play afincuao? Playing un bongo is not just improvising or slapping there are beats that have to be play at a Certain time if not so that rhythm section can fall in place all the time. A rhythm section it a circle and if not played proper it wobbles.
As to a Anga he was a great conga player, but playing with Afro Cuban All Stars rhythm section you hear notes clashing all over to trained ear that is not afinquao it falls in place but with clashing notes don't make it sound right.
Luis I have a question for you .Many years ago big american bands like Dizzy, Coleman Hawkins, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller, Benny Carter, used conga player like Mongo, Candito, Chano Pozo,Chino Pozo Zabu Martinez,Ray Mantilla, Steve Berros these guys were striate players no show boating . In todays congas timbales bongo society all want to be show boaters.it a look what i can do.noice
caballoballo wrote:. Third I would not let the Conguero in my band to do it. We want to play and sound clean not showing off. Last, playing afincao and with good swing is the way to sound.
What would you accomplish by using 3 or 4 congas ? You may fool some people by repeating the same on every conga but you will not fool the experience musician.
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