Zaragemca's breif on Jazz Music

[zaragemca]

This is dedicated to the musicians and people which support jazz music in anyway(Zaragemca's brief on jazz music).From 1700's to 1800's the same syncronization which was taking place in the U.S., in relation to Ragtime was also taking place in Cuba in relation to its music which was called at that time 'Habanera'.This situation took a faster pace becouse the Haitian-Revolt(1789).which displaced frenchs and other peoples,forcing them to migrate to Louisiana and Cuba(creating a traffic between the two colonies,Louisiana-Cuba).In that process a great musician from Louisiana Louis Moreau Gottschalk(1829-1869),visited Cuba(1854-1862),incorporating some music,recruiting some musicians to play with him,and meeting some composers from that country,creating an interest in the music from that country in the U.S.(Cubanola Glides).The Civil War of cuba(1868-1878),forced the mugration of Cubans and other people which moved to Key West,Tampa,NY,Louisiana,etc., bringing their culturization with them.Also after the War between the U.S. and Spain(1898),some of the service-man returning to the 'States' brought the influence of this music raising the curiosity of Columbia,which did recording of Cuban Bands at that time(1909)...(there is a harassment against me when i'm using this computers in this college so, to be continued.



Edited By zaragemca on 1086207241

[zaragemca]

Another musician from Louisiana,Papa'Jack' Laine((considered the first caucasian to play jazz),also recruits cubans to play in his Reliance Brass band,Alcides'Yelow' Nunez and the Mello's brothers,circa1888-1900)(they later formed their own Jazz band).Alcidez was one of the founder of The Original Dixieland Jazz Band,he left the band a few months short of the historic recording in 1917.Another cuban was recruits at that time,Manuel Perez(1873-1946) for the Onward Brass Band,Manuel played with the band since 1889 'till 1930's,becoming the music director from 1900 'till 1930's,under the directorship of Manuel,a lot of luminaries nortured their musical performanship,like,Joe'King' Oliver,Louis Armtrong,lorenzo Tio Jr.(Lorenzo Tio Jr.,later set up a Clarinet School in Louisiana teaching a lot of luminaries which became jazz player).By 1910 the jazz bands from Louisiana started touring California(San Francisco would have been a good venue,if would n't have been for the Earthquate of 1909,which could have keep people away for some time).In 1911 the Original Creole Orquesta started comming to California,also,Edward'Kid' Ory,relocated to California(considered the first African american Jazz band recording with Sunshine-Records in 1922).By 1914 there were a jazz band in Cuba (Sagua Grande of Pedro Stacholy).In 1917 the U.S. enter the World War I and drinking in Louisiana's Clubs was restricted,so the musicians started looking for other places to play(the mayority moved to Chicago).Jelly Roll Morton moved to California in 1917 and later to Chicago.In 1917 the New York bandleader James Reese Europe recruits fifteen Puerto Ricans for the 369th U.S. Infantry Military Band which popularized Ragtime in France during the World War I.In 1922 Rodrigo Prat, created the Cuban Jazz Band which was the venue for skill development of musicians.In 1919 Louis Rusell from Panama joined Manuel Perez's Imperial Orquesta,later Louis Russell played with Joe Oliver(1923) and Louis Armtrong(1929).In 1922 Louis Armtrong left the Onward Brass Band and moved to Chicago to play with Joe'King' Oliver.By 1925 Mario Bauza(the Godfather of Latin-Jazz) is already playing in jaz band in Cuba,then moving to U.S. in 1930 and playing with Don Redman,Sam Wooding,Noble Sissle,Fletcher Henderson and being recruited by Chick Webb as musical director(1933)(this was the first time that Mario Bauza,tryed to get the young Dizzy Guillespie's in this Jazz band).Also Ramon 'Moncho'Usera, is playing with Noble Sissle at that time(to be continue)



Edited By zaragemca on 1086279065

[zaragemca]

In 1929 Duke Ellington recruits Juan Tizol(which came to the U.S. in 1920).Through the mid 1920's a lot musicians from the U.S. are visiting and jamming in Cuba's venues like,Max Dollin,Coleman Hawkins,Louis Armtrong,Paul Withman,Ted Naddy,Jimmy Holmes,etc.Argentina started the jazz crusade around 1925 with musicians like,Francisco Canaro,Roberto firpo,Rene Cospito,etc.Dante Varela moved to California in 1940 and started performing and doing musical arrengements for jazz musicians.In 1956 when Dizzy Guillespie toured Argentina he did recruits Lalo Schifrin as pianist,composer and to do musical arrengements.On the other coin Clarence Williams becames an important facilitator for recording of Jazz and Blues,being Alberto Socarras one of the recipeints of the opportunity for the first recording of Flute in jazz music(1927-1929).Aroung 1938 Cad Calloway recruited Mario Bauza as musical director,and Mario at this time finding the opportunity to recruit the young Dizzy Guillespies to perform in the Band.(to be continue).



Edited By zaragemca on 1086281850

[Johnny Conga]

Vaya Zara...what book did you get this information from?..I 'd like to get it also.....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[zaragemca]

Saludos brother,and also the rest of the drumming brothers,not book,as matter of fact a lot of research becouse in the books the 'latinos' are missed ???.I have to create my own book,as you could see....This is the final Chapter.Some Scholars have set up the fusion on Jazz in the 60's..I have to disagree with them,to me the fusion in jazz started in the 40 with the historic recording of Chano Pozo and Dizzy Guillespie's which put together both, the cuban folklore and the instrument(Conga),creating a fire which was followed by other musicians at that time(everybody was looking for 'congeros',and Sabu,Candido Camero,Francisco Aguabella,Mongo Santamaria,Jose Mangual Sr,Ubaldo Nieto,Silvestre Mendez,Armando Peraza,Julito Collazo,Patato Valdez,Carlos Vidal,Willy Bobo,Tito Puente and later Ray Barreto,were some of the percussionist making that fusion with the other musicians.



Edited By zaragemca on 1086296198

[Simon B]

Some Scholars have set up the fusion on Jazz in the 60's..I have to disagree with them,to me the fusion in jazz started in the 40 with the historic recording of Chano Pozo and Dizzy Guillespie's

I absolutely agree with you Zaragemca. And I don't dispute your idea that Latin Jazz is underwritten in scholastic circles. Why is this? Is it because music journalists, writers, and academics, are more likely to be white or black Americans, and thus to represent 'their' tradition? Or simply that the African-American experience in the US psyche as a whole is the more significant one (after all they were the people who were enslaved WITHIN American borders, whereas Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc, came nominally as free people?)

Simon B

[zaragemca]

The musicians have nothing to do with it,African American have their share of been underrated in their respective time,it is a lack of depper analysis of the musical structure when writing about fusion.



Edited By zaragemca on 1086361768

[Mr. Furley]

A good source on Latin Jazz I recently came across is the book

Cuban Fire: The Story of Salsa and Latin Jazz

by Isabelle Leymarie

[zaragemca]

I've not seen the book,but it is good news that a book is been written in relation to this subject.

[Ecuarumba]

Simon B...I agree with you completely.
A funny story....I recently went to dinner at B Smith's restaurant. For those of you who don't know, she's like the black Martha Stewart and very well known for taking soul food to a higher level. ...Anyway, so the restaurant is completely immersed in black culture i.e. soul food, live jazz music, photos of prominent black figures, everything you could think of, and as I look through the photos on the walls I find several jazz bands with congueros and bongoceros lol..just an example of how no matter how hard you try to separate the two, they have allways intertwined somehow.

[Jingo]

Ecuaruba, the two are intertwined because they are both derived from African Music. Also remember that African/black culture exist in Cuba, Puerto Rico, and anywhere slaves were. Most of the original congueros that came to the U.S. were of African descent; Mongo, Patato, Candido, etc.

[zaragenca]

Continuation..From the begining of Rag Time in New Orleans,(whichlater set up the stage of jazz),it was projected as a way to entertain and an invitation to dance,(there were in New Orleans and also in Cuba,(1920's and 30's),professional dancers which would jump on the floor to brake the crowd/ice,later the Swing was specifically taylored to the dancing/mass.(which fill up the Ball Rooms everywhere..The Bep Bop.. Dizzy G.,created the Bep Bop to get back to all the people which didn't take him seriuosly,(at that Time),even Mario Bauza had a hard time getting the young Dizzy in a jazz/band..After a lot of after/hours of learning the complex patterns of the bass and percussion in the cuban music with Mario Bauza,(monster director),which didn't mark the '1' in the 4/4 time signature,llike the bassline does in jazz),and having the opportunity to seat it with Alberto Socarras band,(another monster director),he was readyy to create a solo line by moving the parameters of the musical phrase which instead of starting in the, '1' of the beat,(as jazz was doing),would start in the odd/time,or the syncopation place of the metric,and also would finish the same way,added to that more sophisticated harmonies,and took away the approach of following a melody,later add the cuban percussion,and that would be enough at that time to create a musical carnival which were keeping everybody,(which didn't know the recipe),with the instruments close to the chest,the mouth wide open and the characteristic look of the faces.they would invite those musicians to the jam,would jump in the stage fusilating their musical part and would get off thwe stage without giving a clue,('Bird' Parker was part of the plan), to anybody else of what was going on...So Dizzy did get back to those people which didn't take him seriously at the begining...The After/Bop was a movement to get people back to the dancing floor and for better understanding of the audience of what was going on,like the Latin/Jazz and the Cool/ Jazz,(even when dancing in slow motion).Dr. Zaragemca

[Mike]

Another book I found not bad because it shows how the various Afro-Cuban etc. styles have been intertwined with Jazz, etc in the US is The Latin Tinge by John Storm Roberts. It´s from the 1970s, but in the 1999 edition the author has added a chapter called"New voices, harder sounds" that covers the 1970s and further developments.
In general I recommend this book to anyone interested in Latin music in general, there´s a bunch of names, anecdotes and historical developments that makes you want to know more and research Latin music across the two Americas. (discography!).

[congamyk]

Holy cow there is some seriously flawed information (misinformation) in this thread.

Jazz music comes in many different subgenres and Latin (Cuban, Afro-Cuban, etc) is one of them. So is Brazilian, Bossa Nova and other forms. But Cuban influence and thier contribution to jazz were NOWHERE around when mainstream jazz was being formed and developed.

Cuba had nothing to do with the development of jazz. From Dixieland in New Orleans (1900) to swing in Kansas City (1920's), Chicago (1940's) and Detroit (1940's) to NY in the 1950's when Charlie Parker moved from Kansas City to NY and collaborated with Dizzy Gillespie to form bebop.
It was purely a black American art form in it's conception and development. Cuba had nothing to do with that. Sure there were a few conga players here and there in the 50's and 60's but they were only sidemen. Chano Pazo's collaboration with Dizzy was the only real influence on mainstream jazz. Cubans and Cuban music was not influential in the development of mainstream jazz.

What's next? Are you going to say Cubans invented classical music in Europe? Did Cubans invent rock and roll too?



Edited By congamyk on 1182218183

[davidpenalosa]

<<Congamyk: “Holy cow there is some seriously flawed information (misinformation) in this thread. Jazz music comes in many different subgenres and Latin (Cuban, Afro-Cuban, etc) is one of them. But the Cuban influence and it's originators were NOWHERE around when mainstream jazz was being formed and developed. Cuba had nothing to do with the development of early jazz, from Dixieland in New Orleans (1900) to swing in Kansas City (1920's), Detroit and Chicago (1940's) and NY in the 1950's when Charlie Parker moved from Kansas City to NY and collaborated with Dizzy Gillespie to form bebop. It was purely a black American art form in it's conception and development. Cuba had nothing to do with that.”>>

Hi Congamyk,
Some people have exaggerated the Cuban contribution to early jazz, but I think your statement is so absolute as to be inaccurate. Cuban music did have some effect on early jazz. John Storm Roberts documents this in his books “Black Music of Two Worlds” and “Latin Jazz”. However, his conclusions are fuzzy.

Musically speaking, tresillo (the first half of the son clave pattern), and its embellishment, cinquillo, were spread across the globe in the mid-1800’s due to the popularity of the Cuban Habanera. By the time jazz was born, elements of the Habanera had been adapted into all types of music, like Bizet's “Carmen” and compositions by North American composer Louis Moreau Gottschalk.

Tresillo was a common rhythmic motif in the compositions of early jazz musician Jelly Roll Morton. In fact, Morton claimed that tresillo was a necessary ingredient of jazz, calling it the “Spanish Tinge”. WC Handy’s 1914 jazz classic “St. Louis Blues” has a tresillo bassline. Ragtime performers used to take Habanera compositions and “ragtime-afy” them. Early jazz bands often had Habaneras as part of their repertoire. The pre-Afro-Cuban jazz tune “Caravan” was a later expression of this phenomena. Now, of course this does not mean that Cubans invented jazz, but the Habanera did have some influence on early jazz.

The first written music to be based on the full, two-side clave pattern was the Cuban danzon (1879). Interestingly, clave didn’t appear in jazz until Mario Bauza’s “Tanga” (1942).
-David