Mathew Smith Bongó

[burke]

I actually do a little archery.

If you got a warped arrow your shots gonna be off no matter how good you are.

So maybe a better analogy would be "its the archer, not the bow". Being a little PC there "Indian" doesn't particularly bother me ... others maybe.

Thwack! [sound of dead centre]

[FidelsEyeglasses]

There are many percussionists/bongoseros that don't find Mr. Smiths pricing of his instruments to be stratospheric at at all (unless someone is used to seeing or paying $275. or less), obviously myself included, understandably as my father himself was an instrument/drum maker and I personally know the Man power, time in hours spent + the "best" materiel/s used/obtained that go into making an instrument that not only is visually appealing... but the second your hands touch it, you hear the difference.
Not everyone can 'hear' the difference, so then the decision is more about affordability.

I don't advocate that a someone just starting out that they should purchase a $600.-$700.-$800. instrument, is this case bongoes.
I'm talking about seasoned professional musicians that choose their instruments not based mainly on whether the perceived cost is either high or low, or if they're getting them "free" a.k.a. "endorsing", or based on if it's a "Joe Blow Model", the "Palladium Model", the "Legend Series", the "Cuban Timba Series" the "Puerto Rican Salsa model", the "Generation 69 Model" or the "Tiger Stripes Series".... for the professional seasoned musician marketing terms are bull****, they don't purchase an instrument because someones name is stamped on it or it's inexpensive a.k.a. 'cheaper'.

On the other side of the coin, I know many musicians that feel paying $200.00 for lets say Matador or another company's "economy" line is acceptable.
I understand "No es la flecha. Es el Indio" in concept, pero I guaranty that on TOP CHEF they don't use the lower priced Kmart or Walmart brands of pots and pans to cook in.

There are individuals that will base their purchasing decision mainly on what they can reasonably afford to spend (cost of the instrument), then there are those that choose a superbly made instrument, there's a reason Jerry Gonzalez chooses to play what he plays and records with and not the "economy" lines made by Meinl or Matador or even a $979.00 "so called" Palladium model which in my 'personal' opinion are poor facsimiles of Junior/Jay/Matt drums.
And no, the "Jerry Gonzalez series model" does not exit.
It's the market for a particular item that will always dictate a price along with the skill, mastery and reputation of the instrument maker that matters.

Instead of "buying three pairs of bongoes for the price of one Matt Smith/s" as was was mentioned, I choose one pair of Matt Smith's bongoes as opposed to three pairs of lower cost bongoes that the total cost of the three together winds up what one pair of Matt Smiths cost.

Those of you that are familiar with (own) Custom Vs. Production Knives understand the difference between 'Production' Knives made by Spyderco that are excellent as opposed to knives 'built' by Bob Terzuola or Allen Elishewitz.

The above are my own personal view points which fit me, but not by any means made to fit everyone else.

[blavonski]

I’d like to chime in an anecdote or two here.
Interesting topic…
High price custom made Drums compared to reasonably price Custom drums.
Due to it being, in every way, a personal choice as well as privilege when someone pays what I do for rent on a pair of Bongos and feels good about it; I think it’s obvious that owning something of this calibre is simply and purely a status symbol purchase, like all other forms of status objects that separates one from another and or joins them with the group like, lets say mid seventies Chevy, Monte Carlo owners for example. All the rhetorical justifications won’t change the indisputable fact that, a Bongo of similar, quality materials and workmanship costing half if not less than MS’s drums will achieve the same results in the hands of an experienced player. However, personal enjoinment is another matter and that enjoyment can be achieved not necessarily through playing the instrument competently, but through observing the thing as it sits on display or between ones legs. And that’s anybody’s right to do so.
We are all conditioned in this Capital driven society to be, want and have the very best. So, when people who can drop coin in any direction they wish and fancy themselves having the best, and belonging to the various best clubs, then absurd amounts of money go in the direction of choice, perhaps even towards a sixth pair of Bongos that they love more than the other five, for the time being. But, even those who can spend such amounts on an instrument would refrain from doing so for practical and rational reasons. Much in the way that I was more than happy to sell one of threeSaxophone Ligatures I had.

A saxophone ligature performs the duty of keeping the Reed in place on the mouthpiece while it’s being played. There are inexpensive Ligatures made of nickel plated allow steels, brass, and leather ones with different designs and screws and fastening styles costing anywhere from about $ 3.00- $ 80,00. Then there are the collector Ligatures. Well, I own two different Saxophone mouthpieces with three different ligatures, they are all over thirty years old and two came with my Horn when I bought it and the other I found in thrift shop many years ago that cost $5.00. Well, one evening, a couple of years ago as I was talking to another horn player at a jam session, I found out how much my Current ligature was worth to him and others like him. He was really excited about my Ligature and kept offering to buy it from me and I said, man you can get a ligature anywhere, what’s so special about this one. He said it was a collector’s item and that it had a special form and design that made the reed vibrate more evenly and so on. I thought, oh no another horn player that thinks that the mouthpiece set up is going to make him sound like Charlie parker or John Coltrane. I told him that I notice no difference between it and my other Ligatures on the same mouthpiece; it just looks different to me than my others. He chuckled and said that he would give me 400,00 Euros for it. I thought he was joking and laughed. But, sure enough, two days later he came by my place and I gave him my Ligature that I paid five Dollars for fifteen years ago and he gave me 400,00 Euros. That’s irrational and highly privileged behaviour, and it’s his right to do so, but it certainly had nothing to do with him playing his horn better than he does.

Charlie Parker played Selmer’s and less expensive, mass produced horns, as well as plastic Saxophones, and sometimes with cracked reeds and chipped mouthpieces to boot through out his career and when he was healthy and in form, he sounded the same on whatever horn he was playing. Some believe that a thing is worth whatever those who want to buy it are willing to pay. Phylosophically that sounds like a well rounded justification for getting what one wants with money, but there are too many times that people pay way too much money for a thing than what it is practically and materially worth, and I think Ralph Naider and his former colleagues have given us enough data by now for us to know that, what’s behind a famous or brand name, can and is more than we know, also that which is behind a no name/nobody that’s makes a quality product. Mathew Smith may be a one man operation, but he also has a blueprint from which he works and his processes are also automated to a degree, he has big machinery for sure to cut and shape the wood and steel. And he hast to, to crank out what he does. And because of that, his drums are too costly, in my opinion. Man, when I think of how much beautiful Son and Rumba and Jazz, was made in the first half of the last century on Bongos and congas and snare drums that were made in that era …It certainly doesn’t need to cost a fortune to sound like one.

Good Vibrations,
Blavonski

[El Magnifico]

I actually do a little archery.

If you got a warped arrow your shots gonna be off no matter how good you are.

So maybe a better analogy would be "its the archer, not the bow". Being a little PC there "Indian" doesn't particularly bother me ... others maybe.

Thwack! [sound of dead centre]

Thanks very much for your expertise on the archery sport, but this is not what we were talking about. I like your point,though, but as an expert you must have the ability to identify a warped arrow...or not?

Our commentary is from a different perspective and according to an old Puertorrican popular saying "No es la flecha. Es el indio". And when we talk about the Indio, it's about the coloquial character of this old "refran". No racial argument was intended. In other countries this has become a very sensitive issue, especially in the US...not in here thanks God, as we don't suffer the "disease" of a terrible racial distinction in our island PUERTO RICO. Just in case...

Swoosh! [sound of an arrow bowed by a bongosero] Ha!

[El Magnifico]

On the other side of the coin, I know many musicians that feel paying $200.00 for lets say Matador or another company's "economy" line is acceptable.
I understand "No es la flecha. Es el Indio" in concept, pero I guaranty that on TOP CHEF they don't use the lower priced Kmart or Walmart brands of pots and pans to cook in.


Those of you that are familiar with (own) Custom Vs. Production Knives understand the difference between 'Production' Knives made by Spyderco that are excellent and knives 'built' by Bob Terzuola.

The above are my own personal view points which fit me, but not by any means made to fit everyone else.

Good point Fidel, but every famous musician, or at least 90% of them, don't buy SHIT, and you know why? Because most of them has been endorsed by a maker and they don't even need to pay for a single skin. I know because I have been there and I'll try to find the endorsement contract for you to see what I'm talking about. And you'll be sure that none of them spend $800.00 on a bongo either...and if they do so it's simply because MR. Smith or whoever, endorsed them with an special "professional musician price" that in many cases is only the production cost. In my personal experience, these museum pieces or custom made instruments are bought mainly by amateurs or collectors, and I don't have any problem with that, but let's call everything by its name with an objective point of view.

Because of the very different nature of both skills, I wouldn't catalog a knife the same as a bongo. Completely different items and applications. I can play a fine tuned $95.00 El Cheapo bongo with a good sound all night long with excellent results, but I'm afraid that I can properly cut a fine steak or a fish fillet with a Walmart Chinese $2.50 knife that bends all the time and loose the sharpness every 5 minutes. You see what I'm trying to say?

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, as long as it's done in a elegant and professional way. That's what I like these forums.

[El Magnifico]

I’d like to chime in an anecdote or two here.
Interesting topic…
High price custom made Drums compared to reasonably price Custom drums.
Due to it being, in every way, a personal choice as well as privilege when someone pays what I do for rent on a pair of Bongos and feels good about it; I think it’s obvious that owning something of this calibre is simply and purely a status symbol purchase, like all other forms of status objects that separates one from another and or joins them with the group like, lets say mid seventies Chevy, Monte Carlo owners for example. All the rhetorical justifications won’t change the indisputable fact that, a Bongo of similar, quality materials and workmanship costing half if not less than MS’s drums will achieve the same results in the hands of an experienced player. However, personal enjoinment is another matter and that enjoyment can be achieved not necessarily through playing the instrument competently, but through observing the thing as it sits on display or between ones legs. And that’s anybody’s right to do so.



Charlie Parker played Selmer’s and less expensive, mass produced horns, as well as plastic Saxophones, and sometimes with cracked reeds and chipped mouthpieces to boot through out his career and when he was healthy and in form, he sounded the same on whatever horn he was playing. Some believe that a thing is worth whatever those who want to buy it are willing to pay. Phylosophically that sounds like a well rounded justification for getting what one wants with money, but there are too many times that people pay way too much money for a thing than what it is practically and materially worth, and I think Ralph Naider and his former colleagues have given us enough data by now for us to know that, what’s behind a famous or brand name, can and is more than we know, also that which is behind a no name/nobody that’s makes a quality product. Mathew Smith may be a one man operation, but he also has a blueprint from which he works and his processes are also automated to a degree, he has big machinery for sure to cut and shape the wood and steel. And he hast to, to crank out what he does. And because of that, his drums are too costly, in my opinion. Man, when I think of how much beautiful Son and Rumba and Jazz, was made in the first half of the last century on Bongos and congas and snare drums that were made in that era …It certainly doesn’t need to cost a fortune to sound like one.

Good Vibrations,
Blavonski

Nicely put, Blav. Enough said in a very professional matter. When you study Consumer Behavior you find some phenomena that explains this from a scientific point of view. Buyer's Remorse,for example, would make you hear a better sound from a $800.00 bongo than from my original 1974 $135.00 LP. After spending an absurd amount of money in any product, your brain would find an excuse to justify your behavior. This is part of what we call in Marketing "Cognitive Dissonance".

BUT, as Blav says, "It certainly doesn’t need to cost a fortune to sound like one", but I can also understand why others feel ok buying a costlier bongo, because to begin with; "costly" is also highly subjective. This happens everywhere as it is a direct result of a capitalist culture: have you ever hear a $4,000 hand made stylus to listen to your LP's? A $25,000 amplifier to do the same as my old Crowns of $500.00 do? A $50.00 Davidoff cigar that taste like shit, but it's all about the brand Man, and the status it gives you!!!!

Ha,ha,ha! and we can go on and on but we are already out of the subject and this is BONGO, not a Marketing class.

Sorry for the rant.

[El Magnifico]

Saludos, yes I agree with Magnífico & Omelenko. Magnífico thanks for writing the truth in a very diplomatic mode.
There are three types of members in any forum, the collectors, the fanatics & the amateurs, also you have the fuckers but those are another breed I may have a little bit of the last type . They all have their goals and I respect that . I am neither one of them. I am an active bongocero playing for various salsa bands thus I don't need an instrument that expensive and fancy to perform my job. It is not that I cannot afford to.
Yes indeed, there are others Artisans who do the same for less. I have Bongos made here in Puerto Rico by
1-Jorge Miranda who played 13 years with Sonora Ponceña, La Terrifica, etc.
2-Papo Del Valle who played with Tito Rojas & Conjunto Borincano, Atabal, etc
3-Charlie Vega who is famous for his pleneras and a fine musician too.

All them very fine and skilled musicians Artisans who know how a Bongó should sound like, they made instruments from different native puertorican woods including mahogany. With them you have the option of only buying the shells and then have somebody like Manito Percusión to make a flawless hardware. Altogether is not going to cost you close to $400 including your choice of skins.
Like Omelenko said, if you want to expend that much go for, it is your cash. Like Magnífico said, is not going to make you play or sound better, it is the Indian not the arrow.

You got that right, Josean. I need to call you as we are 15 minutes away!

RUMBA!

[Psych1]

Have said this before but this seems like a good thread to say it again!

I have a great collection of some of the best, most expensive, most valuable, bongos ever made. No "buyer's remorse" most of them are probably worth more now than when I bought them. And, I love to look at them and play them.

But, I have a great old Meinl, that I bought in a pawn shop for $35. Sounds as good as any of them. If I was to go out on a good gig, like I used to do, that is the one I would take with me.

[burke]

"...an expert you must have the ability to identify a warped arrow...or not? "

Hold arrow up to eye and look down shaft. If it is not straight ... it is warped.

[Omelenko1]

Gold plated hardware, beefy comfort crowns and center blocks that separate the macho from the hembra 1" or more are a complete turnoff in my book. I rather buy a Matt Smith, a Jay Bereck or a Junior Tirado pair of bongos than (3) Matador, a Toca and a Pearl. I like that Cuban 50's look that Gonzalo Vergara and Candido Requena gave their instruments. Is definitely the Indian and not the arrow, but Markito (Fidel Eyeglasses) has a Candido Requena from the 50's ,reconditioned by Matthew, that projects a sound that no mass produced bongo ever will and is a joy to hold between your knees because is light as a feather. I played a Pearl and a Piernas that weighted 13 lbs. each, after a short while of that agony you get to hate that instrument.

[FidelsEyeglasses]

The original topic of the thread was about a photo on Ebay showing bongoes made by Matt where the crowns "seemed too big, or the skins seemed too thin".
The bongoes were quoted as being $525 and made of black walnut.
Since I could not see the photo, I could not chime in re: "crowns too big/skin too thin".
I did however think to myself that '$525.00', made of 'black walnut' and by the particular maker was a great price.
Upon reading more of the thread.. the subject slowly morphed into "pricing" re: a Spanish cedar bongó being $750 with a 9 month wait, then someone mentioned "paying stratospheric prices".
That's when I decided to chime in (I've always loved that term "chime" in).

For me it then became about what monetary amount is or isn't "stratospheric" a.k.a. ridiculously, outrageously, insanely too high/way overpriced, it's not really about Matt Smith's skill or "abilities" or what he chose or chooses to charge.

For me personally, an instrument that is constructed of/with organic wood/s as in an acoustic bass, violin, cello, snare drum shell etc. are different then metal mouthpieces for horns, where as in wood/en instruments the type/s of glue, gluing techniques, clamping and steaming that are for me as well as by the maker (whoever it is) major factors that contribute to the pricing of those instruments.

Wynton Marsalis does not choose the lowest priced trumpet mouth piece he can find or is offered.
Ron Carter does not choose the lowest priced acoustic bass he can find or is offered.
Akua Dixon does not choose the lowest priced cello she can find or is offered.
The above instruments involve gluing, steaming, cutting, bending and....organic wood.

While they are still played en El Monte, the days of bongoes being simply small wooden buckets with skin stretched across them are a thing of the past for the contemporary modern musician.
Someone mentioned "nobody cares if it is a Thailand's Tycoon bongo" my point is there are many musicians that do care and absolutely see and hear a difference between a "low end starter" instrument and a professional top of the line set of bongoes.

Herr Blavonski, you state "I think it’s obvious that owning something of this calibre is simply and purely a status symbol purchase".
I'm not going to "chime" in on that one.
I will however say that if presented with the choice of purchasing the highest "calibre" mass produced set of Meinl bongos or a set of the highest "calibre" bongoes made by Matt Smith and his assistant, I know which "calibre" I'd purchase.

If any well made high end quality product is perceived as being too expensive and someone either does not have the funds, or has the funds but feels the quality of the product is not equitable to the asking price, then that's their own personal decision.
I personally I don't find Ritmo drums pricing to be "stratospheric" or "simply and purely a status symbol purchase".

I am fortunate to be able to base my point of reference on Vergara, Requena, Skin on Skin, Junior Tirado, Matt Smiths Ritmo, JCR, all of which I have actually seen in front of me, played or owned, the last three are generally easily found and seen in the area where I live, but in other countries and even on the west coast of the U.S. those brands are scarce and not 'commonly' found, so when many peoples points of reference are based on what's available to them whether being Tycoon/Mountain rhythm/CP/Toca/LP Aspire/Toca/Meinl/lower end Gon Bops/Pearl/Meinl "Free Ride"/Schalloch Linea/LP Durian Bongos/LP Galaxy or any "series".
Anything is better than nothing... but If the base of reference is limited to low to mid range drums both in price and materiels, then when someone see's a photo of a Matt Smith Spanish Ceder, or black Walnut drum priced accordingly, it's common and not surprising for some to think in terms of "stratospheric" or "simply and purely a status symbol purchase".

[Mike]

We had this kind of discussion here years ago.

A name that comes to mind is Stradivari...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5251&hilit=stradivarius

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3254&p=29833&hilit=stradivarius#p29833

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5277&hilit=stradivarius


Craftsmanship is one thing, being a collector not having to care about money is another thing,
but it is also the question where you set your aesthetical "point of reference ", and how much respect you want to pay (non-monetary) to an instrument which can give you much back in return, a distinctive sound, tactile pleasure, whatever.

If one´s experience is "limited to low to mid range drums both in price and materials" hoever, FidelsEyeglasses doubts that those people
are talking on the same level like him.

Well, I will not comment on that, but I would say there are some points of view I would subscribe too as well, because they are taken from a player´s p.o.v.:

I have a great collection of some of the best, most expensive, most valuable, bongos ever made. No "buyer's remorse" most of them are probably worth more now than when I bought them. And, I love to look at them and play them.

But, I have a great old Meinl, that I bought in a pawn shop for $35. Sounds as good as any of them. If I was to go out on a good gig, like I used to do, that is the one I would take with me.

That sums up the thing pretty well, and it implies the archery proverb again! ( No es la flecha, es el indio)

And from a thread mentioned above, which is about congas, but can easily be referred to bongos as well:

in my opinion, prices of congas are wrong! Not because of handcrafted drums built with skills and love, but because of mass produced drums, made abroad by extremely cheap labor force and sold back to us via major brands for 3 or 4 times the producing cost while others barely make a living by selling us their lovely drums with a much thinner margin!
[...] do not categorize people that fast (except for drum circle aficionados the respect you have towards your instruments doesn't necessarily mean that you must have spotless instruments.

[El Magnifico]

Ron Carter does not choose the lowest priced acoustic bass he can find or is offered.
Akua Dixon does not choose the lowest priced cello she can find or is offered.
The above instruments involve gluing, steaming, cutting, bending and....organic wood.

I am fortunate to be able to base my point of reference on Vergara, Requena, Skin on Skin, Junior Tirado, Matt Smiths Ritmo, JCR, all of which I have actually seen in front of me, played or owned, the last three are generally easily found and seen in the area where I live, but in other countries and even on the west coast of the U.S. those brands are scarce and not 'commonly' found, so when many peoples points of reference are based on what's available to them whether being Tycoon/Mountain rhythm/CP/Toca/LP Aspire/Toca/Meinl/lower end Gon Bops/Pearl/Meinl "Free Ride"/Schalloch Linea/LP Durian Bongos/LP Galaxy or any "series".
Anything is better than nothing... but If the base of reference is limited to low to mid range drums both in price and materiels, then when someone see's a photo of a Matt Smith Spanish Ceder, or black Walnut drum priced accordingly, it's common and not surprising for some to think in terms of "stratospheric" or "simply and purely a status symbol purchase".

And you know about those musicians for sure? Or are you just guessing?

Unfortunately, Fidel, it looks like you are assuming too much and choosing segmented phrases of whole lines of thinking which takes it completely out of context. Incidentally, I don't have any of those "El Cheapo" brands you mentioned as references, but I understand your point. You can check my collection somewhere else in this forum. My referencece point is very high indeed as well as my experience playing and studying percussion. I read music and I can play a bongo partiture at first sight, but that's not the point here.

To begin with, those terms we have used to describe the price perception are highly SUBJECTIVE. That means that all of us are, in a certain manner, CORRECT. The respect any instrument deserve has nothing to do with the price, maker, brand or anything else. It's an intimate relationship between the instrument and the player, a thing, again, highly subjective and personal that nobody should argue about.

In my case, I don't see the need, nor the practical sense to pay that amount of money for a bongo. BUT that's me and I don't personally fit in any of the assumptions you made concerning "limited references", "pricing accordingly" etc... It's a matter of beign human. Again, if you feel buying a "costly" bongo makes you happy and you find the right motives to do so, well, by all means do it! If the rest of us choose to play a Timba or El Cheapo brand, that doesn't make us lesser musicians, or that we don't have the funds to buy one MS or mean that we are wrong.

So, at the end, nobody is wrong or right because it's a matter of perception and because of that, I don't see the need to continue this discussion. Thanks for a very healthy thread.

RUMBA!

[Mike]

those terms we have used to describe the price perception are highly SUBJECTIVE. That means that all of us are, in a certain manner, CORRECT. The respect any instrument deserve has nothing to do with the price, maker, brand or anything else. It's an intimate relationship between the instrument and the player, a thing, again, highly subjective and personal that nobody should argue about.
[..] Again, if you feel buying a "costly" bongo makes you happy and you find the right motives to do so, well, by all means do it! If the rest of us choose to play a Timba or El Cheapo brand, that doesn't make us lesser musicians, or that we don't have the funds to buy one MS or mean that we are wrong.

So, at the end, nobody is wrong or right because it's a matter of perception

You nailed it, those are very well-put words IMHO.

[caballoballo]

Fidel eyeglasses wrote " I am fortunate to be able to base my point of reference on Vergara, Requena, Skin on Skin, Junior Tirado, Matt Smiths Ritmo, JCR, all of which I have actually seen in front of me, played or owned, the last three are generally easily found and seen in the area where I live, but in other countries and even on the west coast of the U.S. those brands are scarce and not 'commonly' found, so when many peoples points of reference are based on what's available to them whether being Tycoon/Mountain rhythm/CP/Toca/LP Aspire/Toca/Meinl/lower end Gon Bops/Pearl/Meinl "Free Ride"/Schalloch Linea/LP Durian Bongos/LP Galaxy or any "series".
Anything is better than nothing... but If the base of reference is limited to low to mid range drums both in price and materiels, then when someone see's a photo of a Matt Smith Spanish Ceder, or black Walnut drum priced accordingly, it's common and not surprising for some to think in terms of "stratospheric" or "simply and purely a status symbol purchase".[/quote]


Okay, yes you are really fortunate to have all those bongos but, do you go out and use them?
About the point if we are leaving somewhere else and don't have the opportunity of seeing those bongos. My friend Wilson who currently was playing with Charlie Sierra and paso nivel owns a MS, Ronnie Segarra who plays with Willie Rosario, Luisito Carrion and Don Perignon owns Jcr (we all know the story of JCR & Caribbean Rhythms). Also there is a friend who lives in Bayamon and owns an incredible collection with the ones you mentioned. In various threads I have post pictures of currently own Bongos and of others that are gone. Yes I have a Matador & a Old Lp of the New Jersey Garfield era, those are Street warrior to use in low end clubs.
We in a Salsa Dominated band (puerto rico) scene have the grace to obtain Bongos like 3A,El Piernas which is built with cascara d huevo guayacan not as heavy as original guayacan, Tambores Barranquilla & the ones locally made by fine musicians artisans. All intended for the working Bongocero which demand a Bongó that can take the beating of many days.
About been able to hear the difference, yes if you play alone in an acoustic room. However if you seat like me and others do in a middle of a 10 or a 12 musician Salsa band then the answer is no.
Like I said before, I'm an active bongocero educated player, not a collector nor an amateur. I should not said I'm a professional musician because my sole income does not come from playing music but I have the pleasure of currently play with various salsa bands.
To end this conversation let me get to my warm up section and to rehearse some themes so I can be ready for tonight gig with Conjunto Akangana.

Hasta la Vista baby.
Is not the arrow is the Indian.
To each it's own.
Cada cabeza es un mundo..