Changuito y Giovanni: What are they doing?

[dvon]

Hi, all.
I was recently watching Changuito and Giovanni's Conga Masters... at one point they start doing something like (lightly?) pressing the center of the head with one finger tip, and doing an open tone... I have never seen that, and when giving it a try with my congas nothing like their sound came out ... what are they doing? Is it something like the martillo "muffled" tone with bongos?

On the other hand, I posted this question in another topic, but got no answer... I guess it has been addressed plenty of times before, but just couldn't find it. Can anyone tell what is the technique for doing double rolls with slaps? One watches the pros (as I said I recently saw Changuito and Giovanni, and also Poncho Sanchez) and they use it all the time, and when I try to replicate the movement I just can't get the crispy sound I hear...

I know it is a matter of practice, but before that I need to understand the technique... please help!!!

Is it the same kind of slap used when doing flams with slaps?

Thanks! Happy New Year!!

[Cuidado]

Hi dvon,
I think that the strike where they do an open ton with a finger at the center fo the head is an harmonic.
In order to make this sound you must not press (strong) the center of head.

For the double rolls, I'm not a specialist.
Hasta pronto.

[ABAKUA]

As Cuidado said, the sound heard is the harmonic. I lightly press with my left hand thumb and pointer finger joined at the centre of the drum and give a light open tone with my right hand.

If the drum is tuned correctly, you will achieve this sound (with some practice) on all of your drums (ie quinto, tres golpes, tumba, etc etc)

Secondly, double strokes.
Using your wrists, not your forearms, come down on the drum and produce an open slap. Repeat open slap twice with each hand, ie counting in 4... (LH = Left Hand, RH = Right Hand)

LH LH RH RH LH LH RH RH (continue)

Use a metronome if you have one, if you do not own one, invest in one. Worth every penny.

There is no secret to double stroke rolls, be it open tone, slaps etc.

Practise your sound first and do the strokes slowly and precisely every time, over time you gradually build up the speed so that you can maintain a constant speed with your rolls and not cramp up or tire from it.

Sounds first, speed later. Correct technique and practise and dedication will help you achieve it all.

Hope this was of some help to you. If I havent made myself clear, please let me know, I will re-word it.

[dvon]

Abakua and Cuidado, thanks for the reply.

About double strokes: is the open slap the same as a single open slap? Or better, can you please describe the proper technique for doing open slaps?

My muffled and closed slaps have improved a lot, but I haven't been able to understand the open slap technique yet. I continue to get the ringing and overtones (by the way, is this normal?). This was the way my teacher taught me, and even though he says that it sounds ok, I do not hear the ringing in my records, and in the videos, or in his slaps, and worst of all, I do not get any crispy sound out of my slap!

I haven't been able to continue attending my lessons lately, so I would really be thankful if you could give me any advice.

Thanks again! Good Luck.

[sabrosona]

An open slap is a slap that "bounces" ie. instead of giving an open stroke with your upper palm, u give it with a slap (assuming you know how to give a slap).

About the ringing thing I have no idea...maybe it's your tuning? Maybe you play on fiberglass congas (if you do, the ringing is normal and u won't get rid of it no matter what u do) ?

Just remember, you give your slap but don't leave your hand on the drum..you let the hand bounce... it's rather simple really, don't ponder over it.

If you keep getting the idea that your open slaps sound weird, then take a closer look at your ordinary slaps, maybe your technique needs some adjustment (and don't miss you lessons cos it will only draw u back!!).

[dvon]

Sabrosona, thanks for your advice. My open "slap" definitely bounces, but it definitely doesn't look, or sound, like a slap. I will give it a try now.

Thanks again.

[ABAKUA]

It doesnt look or sound like a slap?

No disrespect intended here, just I dont know what level you are at with your playing:

Does not sound like a slap? How long have you been playing?
Can you slap firstly?

The open slap sound is similar to the sound made with the flam in open slap form.

It is difficult to point where/if you are doing something wrong via a computer without actually seeing/hearing you. Too many miscommunication chances....

Re the slap doubles, yes, open slaps twice x both hands.

My advice to you would be to resume your former lessons or seek an experienced player to give you some pointers/lessons to help you develop your sound/technique.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1104722794

[dvon]

Jejeje, Abakua, thanks for your reply...

As you might have deducted from the original post, my level is the one of a beginner... I have been playing congas for almost a year now (and maybe two years of bongos previously), and yes I know how to slap, as I said, my muffled slap sounds well- crispy enough- and the one handed closed slap with both the right and the left is doing better and better... I just can get the open slap as I hear it from the "pros" videos and from my records...

Now, I say that it doesn't look, or hear as a slap, because for me - a beginners view- the slap is muffled!! my fingertips stay in the drum, so trying to do an open slap, with the same shape and form of a closed one, is pretty awkard... and of course, the bouncing is creating that annoying ringing...

But well, after Sabrosona's reply I practiced for a time... the first thing is the ringing... man, I think that the acoustics where I play don't help (even the open tone rings!!!), and I got wooden congas (Aspire's... don't know if this helps explaining anything... though, I don't think so, I think its just pretty bad technique). I tried playing with the tuning... the slaps, in general, sound crispier, but the ringing keeps there. The next thing is the form, I watched for a while the form of the slap, and I think I am getting good form... of course, it ain't good enough because I'm not satisfied at all with the sound I'm getting...

But well, I agree with you... you guys can't do much more for me... and I also agree with you, I need to restart my classes, jejeje... It is frustating, but it's also fun... and well, practice, practice, practice...

Anyway guys, thanks for your advice, and for your patience!!

[Simon B]

Recorded instruments often sound quite different in the playback - over-tones don't tend to come through but are quite natural for congas in the live situation.

Search previous posts in this particular forum group for info on double stroke technique - there is a lot written.

Simon B

[dvon]

Thanks Simon B, I'll do that.

[dvon]

Well, sorry for this post... after searching in past posts I found many discussions. The good thing is that I'm not the only one getting that ring.

Thanks again guys.

[zaragemca]

Brother Dvon, when you trying to replicate things from videos or recording, concentrate on the articulation of the technique and forget about the sound, why?,..as producer I could manipulate the out comes of the recording by the type of microphone I would use,also by placing the mics on specifics parts of the percussion instrument,also by setting the parametric equalizer of the mics which is used for the recording,etc.On the other hand the sound technician,have still more resources of doing that in relation to what software he would use for the processing of the sound,Cubase,Cakewalk,Pro Tool,Gigastudio,etc.You never would be able to replicate many things unless you have the gears.



Edited By zaragemca on 1104942094

[dvon]

Thanks Zaragemca. Although I think you're completely right, I believe that right now the problem is my technique, jejeje.

Nevertheless, thanks for your comment.

[zaragemca]

This is the environment where I was born.Gerry Zaragemca.



Edited By zaragemca on 1104951464

[Mr. NoChops]

This is the environment where I was born.Gerry Zaragemca.

One time, I hopped on the train, and rode it for 200 miles, just for the heck of it. On the way, I bumped into some pink turtles that were shitting elephant trunks. It was good! I have incorporated these observations into my tumbao technique with some Mongo Santamaria super collaboration and Tito puente Timbal jambo on the up-beat of the el mambo down in the barrio, you know whaddam sayin’ ese?

:p



Edited By Mr. NoChops on 1105102772