rolls - advice on how to improve

[bingobongo]

Hi everyone

Can anyone give me advice on how to improve the speed and accuracy of my rolls. Are there any warm up exercises that would help.

Thanks in advance.

Thew.

[yoni]

Welcome to the forum, bingobongo!

Practice, practice, that's the only answer. For sustainable high speed rolls try the double stroke. Takes LOTS of practice, but when it kicks in, wow.

R R L L
"DaddyMama"//...

Start slow, slowly gain speed till it messes up, start again. That's one way.

Yonatan Bar Rashi



Edited By yoni on 1115569627

[Raymond]

Yep, practice, practice. You could practice your single rolls or your "mommy-daddys". Try it with sticks, begin with "heavy ones" and with your hands without sticks.... Is going to be difficult at the beginning but eventually you will see it coming to you.

Saludos!

[bingobongo]

Thank you for your help guys. Much appreciated.

[franc]

to all rumberos,
can any of you guys help me on this ??? in salsa ,changing from the traditional bongo bell playing to the jazz swing playing pattern!!! is there is specffic way to start the pattern??? high, low. low , high, etc, etc, will appreciate help. my best!!! franc: blush:

[Raymond]

Franc,

I guess you mean the famous "mambo jazz" pattern done by beating the mounth of the cowbell?..

Notice that the famous "mambo jazz" pattern, done by the timbalero in the cymbal and the bongosero in the cowbell is actually the "cascareo" pattern of the timbalero.

Is easy. Just remember your clave and that is the key always ....Let me give it a try in "notes"

Mambo Jazz Pattern (Same as cascara) -(In Clave 3-2, for 2-3 just start in second bar) 4/4

All hits in the mouth of the cowbell....

First Bar
Quarter Note, Double Eighth Note, Quarter Note, Eighth Silence/Eighth Note

Second Bar
Quarter Note, Quarter Note, Double Eighth Note, Eighth Silence/Eighth Note

There is a variation done by the bongocero in the cowbell for this mambo jazz pattern that actually you hit the mounth only with quarter notes in the 1 and 3 and substitue the notes not in 1 and 3 with hits the lower part of the bell). This is done when the "mambo jazz pattern" you want it a more swingy and is normally done when there is a solo by some of the brass or in a mona that is more swingy than powerful. The timbaleros is in 99% of the time in the cymbal...(Some traditionalists will tell you that the timbalero should alwasy be in the cymbal when you do this variation but is not always true. I have seen it done without cymbal playing in some arrangements...Sounds sort of funny but seen it...)

What some people do, when they lose the clave, while trying to accomodate or get to the mambo jazz pattern is to do quarter notes in the mouth until they "find" where is the clave. (Some people "find it" easier in the second bar of what I presented that is the 2-3 part of it. Don't worry, the same happens to timbaleros who are so used to do always beginning in 2/3 that when they begin in 3/2, if you are not good at this, some will fall out of clave for a couple of bars until they find it, normally in the 2 pattern). However, watch out for this...you cannot do it for more than two bars or it will sound funny! This is very important.....

Big question here and this is something I have brought up to others, what kind of campanero are you?.... Let me tell you, in my experience there are some good bongoceros out there but a lot of lousy but lousy cowbell players. People underestimate the importance of the handheld cowbell in a "salsa" song...I've learned that this is even more important in a group than the bongo playing itself.

I have noticed there are two main versions of the bongo handheldcowbell playing and and additional version on how to begin. (Some people might disagree with me but is true...some used more often than others but is true...). (Hopefully, I will not mess this up. Forgive me if a screw up some notes)....

IMPORTANT FACT: The mouth hitting is always in 1 and 3.

VERSION 1

4/4

First Bar

Quarter Note, Double Eighth Note, Quarter Note, Double Eighth Note.

(The Quarter Notes here are the mouth and the double eighth notes are in the bottom part of the bell).

Quarter Note, Quarter Note, Quarter Note, (Eighth Note Silence), Eighth Note.

(Same as before 1 and 3 mouth, all notes in 2 and 4 are the bottom part).

Notice this version kind of rushes things but some people do it.

My favorite version is the following that I find more comfortable and accomodating and swingy

FIRST BAR

Quarter Note, Eighth Silence/Eighth Note, Quarter Note, Double Eighth Note.

(Mouth hitting in 1 and 3, bottom hitting in 2 and 4).

SECOND BAR

Quarter Note, Quarter Note, Quarter Note, Eighth Note

(Mouth hitting in 1 and 3, bottom hitting in 2 and 4)

This version is kind of more swingy and more accomodating to any clave.

Some people do a "hybrid" of both versions, like beginning with the first bar of VERSION 1 and then following VERSION TWO and viceversa, following first bar of VERSION 2. (Believe it or not there are some arrangements that because the dynamics of the songs you could go with VERSION 1 for awhile, like in MONAS that require to be "powerful", specially if there is cymbal playing...Watch out that VERSION 1 tends to speed up the beat...you do not want that...so go back to VERSION 1 or swingy version when going back to chorus to change the dynamics again)!


The third version of how to begin? I call this using "crutches" (muletas and is hitting a double quarter note in the 4 of the previous bar where the cowbell playing is supposed to beging. Very old school and "cacophonic". Some old recordings have it and/or some bongoseros from old school follow it.

Again, some people underestimate the importance of good handheld cowbell playing. That campanero needs to be strong in that 1 and 3. Another flaw I find in campaneros is having a strong entrance after a silence, when the clave is in 3 and they have to hit that 1 with assurance....Most people fail at this. Furthermore, in my case, and I've learned this from the get go, and I do it normally all the time, there are some of us, who will do the first bar when the handheld cowbell playing begins, will do just the 1 and 3 to have the timbale cowbell accomodate, or accomodate ourselves to the timbale player, and to avoid the famous "collision" of bells. Is a good thing to do, specially when you begin in the 3 of the clave.

I hope this helps. Sorry about the explanation about the cowbell hitting but I wanted to bring this up to get some feedback out there of what are people doing....I hang around some places that people do "casual" playing and I find that cowbell playing by the bongo player is underestimated big time by most people. If sometimes you find something "weird" or not comfortable when somebody is playing the handheld cowbell is because of the problems I mentioned above....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1115721653

[zaragemca]

Greeting, to all, there is pretty good explanation of Raymond,the (Mambo Jazz) bell pattern was incorporated by the drummers playing in show-bands,(in Cuba),since the Timbales patterns were little more different.In the hand-held bell it is also important to know the holding technique of the bell and the finger movement in the back of the bell,(to facilitate the dynamics).Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1115739742