Congas in a swing jazz 'big band'?

[JohnnyConga]

I'm luvin it!....controversy continues...the clave abounds everywhere....Balkan funeral music??...wow I'd like to hear that and try clave on it...Swing can be found in West African Ghanain music and other African forms...Babatunde Lea is definetly not the first to incorporate african drums and "swing"...like I said check out Mr. Candido Camero...the King of Conga Swing!....."JC" Johnny Conga...

[Berimbau]

Dear David,
Some necessary clarification on my part. My post was addressed in the plural and forwarded to the forum at large. I was not reacting solely to your post but to a certain orientation which in the wake of certain publications seems prevalent these days. We can certainly deal with triplet subdivisions contrasting with duple subdivisions, but individual interpretations of a "swing feel" necessitate a far more intimate approach, one in which the psychological motivations and creative mechanisms of an individual artist then need to be examined. This is where the river gets DEEP and the going sometimes rough.
When an artist "feels' something they wish to express she/he may have invested emotionally in the creative task at hand. This can be a DEEPLY personal thing for at times these feelings arise from our DEEPEST wells. Our feelings are VERY powerful. They move us. But if we confuse our strong feelings with knowledge, we might find ourselves in some turbulent waters indeed!
Since the unfortunate advent of post-modernism and through the dubious auspices of it's retarded stepchild contemporary literary theory, there has been a tendancy in some recent scholarship to forward the experiences of an individual researcher's hungry ego far into the forefront of social science. Surely some of this is unavoidable, I know my own ego has needs, too. However, should we continue along this strange current I fear some researcher will soon detect WMDs inside of someone else's bata drum! Of course I am nitpicking here and quite certain that 90% of our posters here have long since yawned away from this Nadering nebulism.
My Brasilian and Cuban friends have long complained of their status as mere "fellow travellers" in what is certainly a wider, more international coalesence of European and African musical elements into what is considred to be Jazz. A careful historical study of the various tributaries in this cultural continuum is LONG overdue. Acosta has already left us an excellent Jazz study from the Cuban persepective, and a Brasilian perspective would now also be most welcome.
Perhaps you will be the one to give us a more international perspective on precisely HOW these various elememts may have been synthesized? Now I appologize if you thought my tone was a scolding one. I only meant for you to proceed cautiously, trust me you have all of my RESPECT and encouragment!! Our musical ocean is so vast that we need MANY hands to navigate it, no one can do it all, and EVERYONE should feel welcome!


Saludos,



Berimbau

[yoni]

Hi all!

I love playing congas in swing. I usually do a tumbao with a shuffle kind of feel, as Johnny Conga mentioned here. I do it hand to hand instead of the heel-toe way, gives me a looser "swingier" feel, but whatever works for you...

On my mini web page here (Yonatan Bar Rashi), one of my sound samples is called "Jazz Jam", features my late father on his electric guitar, myself on congas/bongos and some other players. That was about 20 years ago, my playing is kind of busy there and it was a small combo with a set drummer and room for freedom, so I didn't often stick to one groove, did the "shuffle" on different sides of the beat, and played kind of abstractly and "obligato", reacting to other instruments. But it may give an idea of some conga possibilities in the swing context.

All the best,
Yoni



Edited By yoni on 1121443335

[zaragemca]

Greeting,Yoni,the way you are playing,( is called open-style),which was developed ,(as I said before),with the incorporation of the Quinto in the center,this is the style which I teach,it was an evolution in the conga-playing,the same way that the drum-set playing style evolved from the France-style, to open-style.In both cases I took into account the facilitation of incorporation of coordination and syncronization rutines, giving the advantage of playing to the left,or to right,(in both, congas and drum-set),and according to the Psycho-Motor,(brain-modules),way of being connected to the Muscular,(ligaments,and muscles),link.I did an article a few years ago with respect to this approach,(The Foundation of Drumming),with was praised by a lot of drummes,and teachers as very fresh and deep... In relation to the U.S.,Cuba connection we should know that two states,(Florida and Louisiana were part of the Spain territory,which were governed under the jurisdiction of the captain General in Cuba.From Cuba it was send the Menendez brothers to set-up headquarters in Saint Augustine,(Florida),to control that jurisdiction,and the Marquez de Casa Calvo,Spanish Military officer, (born in Havana,August 11,1751) was sent to Louisiana as commander by the captain genaral of Cuba, both of them responding to the Cuba's governatorial-jurisdiction,(under the agreement with Spainish-Crown).until it was giving by treaty,(Florida to British,and Louisiana to France)...France lost interested in Louisiana after the Haitian-Revolt,and in 1803, facing economic hardship becouse the war,Napoleon sold Louisiana to the U.S.,for $15.000.000 dollars.In 1809 the Cuban Governor told all the refugees from the Haitian-Revolt,to marry a cuban-wive,or to become somehow naturalized,and a lot of them went from Cuba to Louisiana, from that day on,there were a constant traffic between Cuba and Louisiana,with a lot of dancing,theatrical and musical shows visiting Louisiana from Cuba,and the tobacco business from Cuba, being associated with Louisiana,( there were normal Ferries between Louisiana and Cuba). This exchange was even aumented with the visitation of the great Louisiana musician,Louis Moreau Gottshalk to Cuba,between 1854-62).When the cuban general Narciso Lopez were recruiting people and finacial means to fight the Spain-occupation in the 1850's,his troup and support came from Louisiana, he tryed twice losing his life in the second attack.So the Louisiana-Cuba connection was set-up long way before jazz.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1121631147

[yoni]

Hi Zaragemca,
Thanks for that background info! All this cross-culture stuff is amazing. I remember in St. Lucia, local dance bands would sometimes add N. American country-western tunes to the usual zouk and soca. The country music had their own special touch. They said the influence comes from local sugar cane workers spending years working in Florida.

all the best,
yoni



Edited By yoni on 1121622611

[niallgregory]

Hi johnny,
I never said babatunde lea was the first to do anything.I was just using him as a very good example of playing along with swing.On his album March of the jazz guerillas he uses some great bata toques in 6 8 along with straight ahead jazz ride cymbal.I like the old candido stuff but this is very modern jazz and a good example of mixing the 2 styles. Niall.

[zaragemca]

Greeting,I would have an interesting question,who did teach him how to play Bata?.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1121703314

[davidpenalosa]

Greetings,I have a question Dr. Zaragemca, do you play Bata? If so, who was your teacher?

-David

[zaragemca]

Several bataleros among them, Gerardo de las Mercedes,(Cheche).one of my Godfather.

[niallgregory]

As far as i know babatunde lea dosent play bata on the album.Its played by bill sumers and david frasier.Not sure who else plays.I havent got the cd in front of me to get the info you want.My question to you is why do you want to know and what difference does it make?

[zaragemca]

Greeting, in the music world and specially in the percussion field it is always a world of difference who is doing the teaching,(that is well known in percussion), but when I see not familiar names is it always interesting.Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1121782284

[JohnnyConga]

All right Bill Summers, yea he has a new book out on the History of Bata and both of the Ibodu's transcribed. The book I believe goes for $65 American....below is my group Origens, playing Chachalokefun.....I'm on Itotele.....Ivan on Okonkolo..Steve Cherena(Santero) on Iya....."JC" Johnny Conga.....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 24_jpg.jpg

[JohnnyConga]

Hello Isaac .. I have the whole DVD of Sinatra and the guys, and I have often wondered who is that conga player, one drum and he plays it well...I don't recognize him....I do know that "Darius" was a featured conga drummer in Vegas back in the 50's-60' and early 70's.....I met him in Miami years ago....."JC" Johnny Conga.....

[Ivan]

Here's another one of us I found on the web...

[davidpenalosa]

Bill Summers has been playing bata since the early 70's and David Frasier (originally from NYC I believe) has probably been playing just as long. They are both recognized as two of the top bata drummers in the country.

-David