Gig Intruder

[CongaTick]

Okay, this has probably been threaded here before, but thought I would bring up this annoying issue again. This Saturday paid gig at local club--and mid break a dude introduces himself--says he's a player, has a set of gio palladiums and loves the lookand sound of my drums (LP ardientes w/Isaac/Funky tradition mules on them plus an old LP glass tumba plus big remo djembe) and proceeds to try a couple strokes on my quinto, and seemd to know what he was doing. Wants to know if he can play a song with my mates during the gig. I back him off saying I don't let anyone play my drums, and the dude can't understand why, saying he lets anyone play with his drums. I just smile and say, it's just my way. He sat there for the next couple of hours, wonderin why I wouldn't let him play. It was an annoying incident. Can't understand how anybody regardless of who they are would ask a gigging congero to relinquish his seat. I've got a strong connection to my drums and, unless it's my teacher, anybody else playing them violates my bond with them. I'm sure the pros and semi-pros have dealt with this. What say?

[ABAKUA]

Unless I know who you are or know what you play I wont let ANYONE on stage to play.
Even then, with my bands, not just anyone can get up and cut a song, no matter how good a player you are. Far too many arrangements/bloques etc in our songs for someone to just get up and play.
With the percussionists I know from here, some I do allow (very few) to get up and play because
a) they can cut the gig cause they are familiar with our arrangements
b) share a mutual respect for each other and our equipment c) have played in the band before or have filled in for me before/know the tune.

Otherwise you simply do not get up on stage with my band.
As a matter of fact most the percussionists who havent worked with my band simply wont even ask to come up on stage, they know that all our songs (original material) is fairly 'choppy' and full of arrangements so they are content to either have a dance or sit back and check us out instead.
There is an unspoken rule here, you do not ask to come up on stage, you are invited on.

Not to talk myself up, but when I go out to check a band out, I am almost always invited to come up on stage and play a song on congas or bongo/bell etc.. I am well known in the latin scene here and worked with almost every latin band around today in Sydney.
But I would never go up to a conguero/band I did not know and ask if I can get up and play. Thats just rude.
I would introduce myself and if invited, then yes I would get up and play, otherwise no way.
Its called having respect and knowing your place.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1133187404

[zaragemca]

It all depends in the closeness of musicians,and customs,I'm all the time invited to jam with bands(by the percussionists themselves),when i'm around,in jazz there is always the invitation to come to play between musicians,in Rock, usully there is more competition among bands,but sometimes well known musicians are invited into the stage.In the Salsa field,unless they are enemies for some reasons, it is known for musicians to participate in jammings with other bands.Look at this...In the early 1980's,there were a Club in Houston which was opening and wanted to cater to Salsa music,the band playing that night was Tito Puente,it was Wednesday so a lot of musicians were there checking the engegament,during the breaks a was talking with his horn player which happened to be cuban and he told that the piano player also was cuban,we talk about things in Cuba and that I was a musician,etc,etc,..then he told me that in the next set, there was a song were Tito plays the Vibes and I could jum and play the Timbales,they went back to play,and I thought the guy was just giving me 'baselina', when he pointed at me to come to the stage(,I wasn't that far away),and told me that the song was comming up,Tito Puente acted as if he knew me already and we jammed the song out.After that Tito just asked me..what are you doing down here,(in Houston), mulato,(brown/man)?..Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1133197757

[Isaac]

From the poit of view, the new player with a tumbao or two,
is very eager to play. They don't seem to "get" the difference
between a drum circle and a working band.
I was playing congas at wedding a few years back. The groom was Colombian, and the bride was of Puerto Rican parents. One of the grooms young buddies came up to NYC from Colombia and politely asked me early in the evening if
he could sit in when we do some cumbias. He was very
courteous and I answered "we'll see later on" without
making a definite yes or no. I don't want to create
tension for the guests or the band. Usually with this answer,
the person starts drinking and forgets to come back.
We had latin legend Jimmy Sabater on timbales and vocals
in the band that night. We did a lot of his classic tunes.
A few sets later we were inevitably requested to play cumbia
for the out of town Colombian guests. The young man
came back and asked and convinced me that he knew
Cumbia very well, it being his countries "thing". I gestured
him to go ahead and he did an OK job with some nice
left hand typical cumbia repiques. The problem arose
when taking any cues from the band, ignoring Jimmy's
signals that the changes that were coming..So it end up a
train wreck. For his friends and the other guests his brief
3 minutes was the highlite of the night! and he was on
cloud 9. The applause he got was amazing.
The rest of us could have been "chopped liver"!
On out break, a few minutes later, Jimmy in his inimatable
suave style called me aside and quietly asked me not to ever
give up my congas to someone like that. "Don't do that again".

~ ISAAC ~
funkytradition@yahoo.com
Percussionist / Auth. Rep. JCR Percussion Co.

[ralph]

We had latin legend Jimmy Sabater on timbales and vocals
in the band that night.

which group is this Isaac?

[Berimbau]

Sitting in with a band is such a touchy subject. I rarely let this happen with any of my bands these days. It can compromise your professionalism, bring up bad feelings, and really piss off a club owner, patrons, or fellow musicians if things get out of hand. I RARELY ever sit in with other bands myself as I am far too busy with my own thing. On a nice "date night" with my wife, we would prefer to have dinner, drinks, dance, and hear YOUR band for a change!!
On the bandstand I have been besieged by AGGRESSIVE congueros who have insisted on sitting in. These are usually gig-seeking, unemployed musicians whose current state of intoxication combined with an utter lack of sensitivity explains why they are free to sit in to begin with!!!! Expect LOTS of overplaying and a complete absence of dynamics!!!! Remember, it's goona be all about THEM!!
Now if the situation is right with the venue, especially with whoever is SIGNING THE CHECK, and you have a respected, seasoned player on board, I say let it rip!!! If you have well-behaved, talented students who KNOW the material, I think that's ok, too. I do fear that a good jam session and good ettiquite are both things of the past. For all concerned these days an open mic situation is probably better than letting the amateurs take over a pro's chair at a paying gig. Remember, you need that gig, you have your own fiscal responsibilities.
I do lots of arts education with school kids and at some family-oriented shows I will bring a box of shakers, tamborims, agogos, etc. and bring up a number of kids to play. It can get a bit cacophonous but it ALWAYS gets a really great reaction from the audience. However, if you're NOT experienced working with children, I don't reccomend it! A few centuries ago Mongo once let a bunch of us youngsters "invade" the bandstand and even play on some of his tubs. This was, however, a VERY structured concert culmination of some N.E.A. neighborhood arts program. We were pre-screened, took some four or five group lessons with the master and then set loose on Afro Blue. Although this was probably just another payday for Saint Mongo it meant the world to us!!!! It IS important to encourage the younger musicians out there.
I quess I'm kinda rambling here but in essence you just have to gauge each individual situation. And hey, there is always the danger that the next Mongo, Armando, or Giovanni is making your band sound better than you do!! Boa sorte!


Saludos,



Berimbau

[CongaTick]

I figured on most of your responses. I felt perhaps I was being a bit petty, but only for a moment. Respect should have been the starting point, but i guess the kid didn't quite understand my reluctance. Thanks for the support.

[Smejmoon]

There are at least two sides how to look at it.

One is difference between playing prearranged songs and jamming. When guest star comes on stage, you should not assume anything you have not agreed on before. Both parties will have to adjust. Most probably jamming skills can be learned. Listening, being ready for surprises. There is always something to learn. And some part is just letting go and trying to catch that common wibe.

I think that when Isaac let this guy to play, he did just what he was payed for - entertaining audience and letting them have good time. Even though song was spoiled.

Because hand percussion are so attractive, we should also learn the skill to talk with people that come to us. Sometimes I feel bad when guy who wants to play, but I have to say no - we are playing songs. But there are times, when I'm happy to give my drum to good player, and play some other percussion meanwhile.

Now this other thing is about personal bond with instrument. Also some people just don't treat instruments as expected. Sometimes that's lack of knowledge, sometimes peole just don't care. You also can not know do they know how to play. Giving my djembe to stranger, could be a realy explosive thing I have some small plastic egg shakers for such moments. When you play them you join the party, you hear what you are playin, and I don't care if you throw them down, spill with drink, put in pocket or play a long long solo. Maybe it makes sense to take cheaper instrument, you don't worry so much about and keep the best stuff for studio work and different stage.

Giving your instrument or taking someones elses sometimes is about not hassling with setup, tuning and soundcheck. If that's just one solo or one song, let it be.

I attach photo from out last gig. Guitar man is not from our band;he is a great player and become important part of rythm section immediately. He has his own, technically much better band, but there is a lot of fun playing with us. Small dark guy is from local hip-hop scene; he has prepared something to read, when he comes to our gigs. In these cases we play our dancehall song more in his style.

As you can see we enjoy it!



Edited By Smejmoon on 1133207972

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[Smejmoon]

And here is the proof, that people liked it.

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[TigerBongo]

It's a bit of a difficult one.....

I remember on one gig - we had some Peruvian singers and dancer that we were working with that were very very keen to play our gear - including one of the singers trying to take my campana off of me during the montuno! I basically told him to piss off!

We also had another guy at the same gig - a very good peruvian dancer - that went on and on about how good a percussionist he was - he was adament that he should be playing congas instead of our conguero. We politely said that he could play the clave for a tune. Well - he was pretty bad - couldn't even hold a solid son clave for an entire tune! - so, never again I think will we let others on our gig. Unless it's somebody we know or respect.

I also tend to get a bit pissy about other musicians/sound techs touching my congas/bongos etc - justa as they are walking past.....you wouldn't pick up somebody elses sax or horn a give it a blow would you?

TB



Edited By TigerBongo on 1133261411

[pidoca]

Hi Guys, Just to add to the bad experiences that we all seem to have during our giging lives. I had a residency at a local night club playing along with a a D.J.. We had managed to build up the room to a decent size and thigs were going along. The region I was playing was starved for club; so you always saw the same people week in week out. There was one particular patron who kept asking to jump on during my breaks. politily and consistently I kept saying NO. a couple of months into the gig I happen to be in a bad mood and he was perticularly intoxicated witht he yellow stuff. He kept asking and asking and asking. He would come up and tap the congas then run off. Well, he did it once too many times. I saw him coming throught the crowd... as he aproached to tap again... I swung, fist closed and landed a beauti.

He never came back. I look back on it laughing, now. It wasnt funny at the time. The funny thing was tha the punch was in time with the music and not a beat was missed. ha ha

Pidoca

[onile]

Alafia Abures!
I hope that you are all well and swimmin in wonderful blessings!

Alright, so I guess I have to toss my name into the hat as well here with this topic!
I was playing bongos on this particular gig, and I had this incredibly sounding JCR bell, it was actually one of my first from JCR, and it was tuned to a perfect "C". I loved it, and so did everyone else who heard it. Well, this particular evening a cat from the Dominican Republic, by way of Miami, actually he was pretty well known in the music arena down there, his name was Manny Gonzalez, he and his brother Lee had arrived early that year (1980 or so). Well, Manny came up on stage and played a couple of tunes on flute, then started to sing, but suddenly, after the piano player was doing his solo, I was on bongo, he grabbed the JCR, he went to town on it. What he did was quite impressive during his cencerro solo, except when it came to the part where he had been getting every sound from the bell he possibly could, he got yet one more...............he threw it on the concrete floor! The bell was ruined! What in the world was he thinking, he was so caught up with his solo that he forgot that the instrument he was playing wasn't his! Well, when he realized, after the applause from the audience, what he had done, he did offer me $40 for the bell, I took it, but never found another sweet JCR until a month ago!

Never again, guard your equipment with your life, otherwise you become fair game!

Suave!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1133236813

[mjw]

I've been invited a couple of times to sit in on tunes, and I've invited people to sit in - however, these situations have always been with the same people - we know each other's ability and respect for each others drums.

I would never ask someone I didn't know to play their drums - I'd rather watch their show and maybe catch up with them afterwards to say "hi, good show" or whatever (but only if they look like they're in a sociable mood ).

[El Boni]

Yeah, the gall of some people is unbelievable.

I was recently playing a latin jazz gig, which turned into a descarga late in the evening, when local musicians turned up after their gigs elsewhere were finished. There were alot of guys sitting in with us - piano, trumpet, guitar. We were really cookin', and I guess this drunken punter figured it was some kind of free-for-all.

There was no stage, and I was sitting in quite an exposed area, near the door. He pulled up a chair next to my tumba and started trying to play it! It was clear the guy didn't know his arse from his elbow, yet thought he could join in on "the bongos". I pushed his arms out of the way and told him to move away, but he persisted, and I physically had to shove him. He then stopped trying to hit the tumba, but spent the rest of the tune sitting feet away from me glaring at me, as he obviously felt aggrieved - it was a ridiculous situation!

The next tune followed on quickly, and I was too busy playing to do anything, but the provocation you get from some of these people is incredible. Pidoca, I can totally relate to your reaction.

And TigerBongo, like you say, I can't imagine anyone walking up and trying to play the drummer's floor-tom mid tune (mind you, I can't even imagine what happend to me!)

That's my rant.

[windhorse]

I don't play many gigs,, so don't have the history, though certainly can relate.. :;):

Here's our gig intrudor that keeps coming back

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