Standard ("6/8") Bell Pattern - analysis of bell patterns

[davidpenalosa]

In my humble opinion, the attempted projection of the Cuban conception of clave onto Brasilian music has never been a helpful analytical tool as it inaccurately assumed that these two DISTINCT cultures share the same musical values. In many cases they demonstratively do, as in the adaptation of African musical values, but an important difference is in the greater assimilation and distillation of West African time line patterns into Cuban popular music.

Granted, the musical values of Cuban popular music do not nessesarily apply to samba or other non-Cuban genres. I don’t think what you are addressing is nessesarily a Cuban conception of clave though, but more likely, a concept that originated in NYC, as a result of fusing clave with jazz. There can be problems when applying the 3-2, 2-3 concept to music other than salsa and Latin jazz. I think that’s the area where Airto came into conflict with the NYC salseros. Being a NYC band concept, the 3-2, 2-3 concept even has limitations in its application to Cuban music from Cuba!

The main purpose of the 3-2, 2-3 terminology and concept is to establish the HARMONIC "one" (where the piano montuno begins for example). All sorts of problems arise from extending this to the concept of a reversible RHYTHMIC "one".

I am very interested in what musical values these various musics share and where their values depart from each other. According to C.K Ladzekpo the standard pattern is found throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Ethnomusicologists use the term "standard pattern" to mean both the seven-stroke 6/8 bell and the five-stroke clave pattern. Many Latin musicians (Mauleon, Amira, Malabe) use the term "clave" to mean both the seven-stroke and five-stroke patterns as well. Dr. Novotney translated the essential meaning of "clave": "key" and uses the term "key pattern". You have the five-stroke key pattern and the seven-stroke key pattern.

When I speak of the five-stroke pattern, I say "clave pattern". When speaking of the African rhythmic principle, I often say just "clave". The "clave concept" as I mean it, is the standard concept in African rhythm. I am speaking about the universal elements, not the particulars that distinguish the music of different cultures from each other. I find that most musicians know what I mean, but I think I may be inviting confusion by using a Cuban term. I suppose I could avoid any Cuban-centric suggestion by using the term "key concept". The specific five-stroke and seven-stroke key patterns do not need to be present for the "key concept" to be active. Many different time-line patterns reveal the "key concept". The "key concept" is found across the wide spectrum of linguistic groups from northwest, central west, central and east Africa. As far as I can tell, the "key concept" is not exclusive to West Africa.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Now many good Cuban percussionists seem to be able to find the "clave" in nearly every kind of music, perhaps even in Mozart!!! I think that this reflects their OWN musical orientation, and not necessarily that of OTHER musicians.
Human beings tend to reinterpretate a variety of local cultures through their own lense, and I suspect that that is the case with the projection of clave onto Brasilian music. If you want to look hard enough for it, it will be right where you expect to find it.

One can probably correctly identify the "clave concept", or a "key structure" in all the music of Africa and the Diaspora mentioned in this thread. I'm just trying to establish that there are musical values that are shared as well as those that are not shared.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

During his lectures throughout Africa, Gerhard Kubik would make a point by playing some music he recorded from an African culture FAR from the location he was speaking in. Many of his students would then proclaim that the music being played was just LIKE the music of their home villages, and proceed to clap and dance on the WRONG beats!!

That's a very interesting experiment, but it needs to continue with a few more steps in order to be certain what it means. The recorded music and the music of the listeners probably share basic elements that were distincly African. They very easily could have just heard an important rhythmic module in a different relationship to the beat. Not knowing which musics we are talking about here, I don't the particluars.

However, we can look at the two bell parts mentioned previously and see how it's possible to hear a sequence of strokes in different relationship to the main beats and yet, still share a "key structure". Below are the off-beat and the on-beat bell:

||XoX|oXX|oXo|XoX|| off-beat bell (standard pattern)
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| main beats w/ pulses

||XoX|oXo|XXo|XoX|| on-beat bell
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| main beats w/ pulses

Both bell patterns contain the same series of strokes. Let's say you played this sequence, without any other reference to a Yoruba group and then to an Ibo group. The Yoruba group would probably hear the off-beat bell, while the Ibo would most likely hear it as the on-beat bell. Once the pattern is orintated to the main beats though, the "key structure" of the rhythmic matirx is established.

All the strokes of son clave align with both bell patterns. Both bell patterns for the purpose of analysis can be distilled down to "6/8 son clave". That doesn't mean either ethnic group plays that particular pattern. The clave pattern merely helps reveal a commonality.

||XoX|oXX|oXo|XoX|| off-beat bell (standard pattern)
||XoX|oXo|oXo|Xoo|| clave
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| main beats w/ pulses

||XoX|oXo|XXo|XoX|| on-beat bell
||XoX|oXo|oXo|Xoo|| clave
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| main beats w/ pulses

-David

[Berimbau]

Again, as Dr. K wrote, the mathematical content of the African time line patterns exists independently of their cognitional dimension." I'm agreeing with you on the math, which is an invariable reality, but not necessarily on the cognitive aspects! Feeling the "clave" and the intellectual concepts of "clave" involve very different brain functions. Of course both are learnable, but it is my contention that a variety of cultures that employ time line patterns in their music simply did NOT have the same cultural interpretation as Cuban musicians do. Until the Cubans so expressed it, clave was not an EXPLICIT element in popular music.
Now you are undoubtably correct that the rhythmic cell of clave exists in a latent form in much African and African-derived music, especially in non-secular forms. But I think that clave reflects how the Cubans unconsciously distilled and processed various African time line patterns as African musical sources were mixed ever increasingly with European musical sources. Doubtless after much experimentation mixing these disparate musical values, the mathematical reality of clave proved the most adaptive to the emerging new Cuban forms. Perhaps this is because clave, in the mathematical scheme of things, is one of the simplest form of an asymetrical time line pattern.
Now I try to use neutral terms such as time line patterns to describe the larger phenomena and clave only for specifically Cuban or Cuban-influenced musics. One can only hope that such unfortunate terms as long bell and short bell will soon be in as short a supply as deodorant is at a hippie drum circle.



Saludos,



Berimbau

[davidpenalosa]

Again, as Dr. K wrote, the mathematical content of the African time line patterns exists independently of their cognitional dimension." I'm agreeing with you on the math, which is an invariable reality, but not necessarily on the cognitive aspects! Feeling the "clave" and the intellectual concepts of "clave" involve very different brain functions.

...it is my contention that a variety of cultures that employ time line patterns in their music simply did NOT have the same cultural interpretation as Cuban musicians do. Until the Cubans so expressed it, clave was not an EXPLICIT element in popular music.

...I think that clave reflects how the Cubans unconsciously distilled and processed various African time line patterns as African musical sources were mixed ever increasingly with European musical sources. Doubtless after much experimentation mixing these disparate musical values, the mathematical reality of clave proved the most adaptive to the emerging new Cuban forms.

Now I try to use neutral terms such as time line patterns to describe the larger phenomena and clave only for specifically Cuban or Cuban-influenced musics.

Well said Berimbau. My definition of the term "clave" is much broader than yours, depending on the context. For clarity's sake I will now use the term "timeline pattern" when appropriate. I agree that clave has been developed in unique ways in Cuban popular music. I wonder what you think of my contention that it’s mostly the 3-2, 2-3 terminology that is the main concept unique to Cuban music?
-David

[Berimbau]

Well David we are both really talking about the same thing - the world wide phenomenolgy of time line patterns that originated in prehistoric Africa and subsequently diffused to a number of New World regions as a cultural consequence of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Your use of the culturally specific term clave merely reflects your cultural profile and orientation as an expert performer in Cuban musical forms. There is little doubt that the Cuban concept of clave has taken African time line patterns to a new level of sophistication.
Now my own musical orientation is perhaps a bit more diverse than most, but I'm no expert in Cuban music either, as you and many of our colleagues here at Congaboard appear to be. Paramount in importance to my own research is the cultural dimensions of the Central African Diaspora. This keeps me interested in Brasil, the Caribbean, and the U.S. South. It's really far too much cultural territory for any one person to cover!
Now on to your inquiry. I think that if we do a little comparitive study, we will discover that the 3/2 - 2/3 clave conception in Cuba may indeed have originated there.
If you study Kubik's time line pyramid note that it is divided, like clave, into two seperate parts. One part of the pyramid always has an even number of beats in it while the other part always has an uneven number of beats in it. Cuban clave, with the ultimate reduction of beats into two in one part and three in the other part, represents the essential asymetrical geometry of these dichotomous patterns. Like yin and yang, patrix and matrix, each part, or "side' to use a Cuban term, both defines and compliments the other.
Now was it really the Cubans who first developed the 2/3 - 3/2 concept? I think that is quite possible. It seems that the kachacha time line underwent a similar metamorphisis in Brasil, the Angolan order of the two parts being reversed so that the even part was played first. Kubik theorizes that this was to accomodate the strophic song forms of Portuguese music, and that seems quite tenable.
For the moment I need to break my own rules and appropriate some of the Cuban clave terminology to describe aspects of Brasilian samba that do not have Portuguese language terms to describe them, or at least, any that I'm familiar with. At this point I would definately welcome any of our Brasilian friends to weigh in here!!!
Now Brasilians seem to be, in general, far less cogent of the CONCEPTION of time line patterns in samba than Cubans are of clave. I have never met a Brasilian who articulated ANYTHING regarding a "4/5" samba time line concept. Nor do I think that anyone has articulated a 4/5 - 5/4 conception. That doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist in Brasilian musical practices. Once or twice I have heard the samba timeline pattern played in Brasil using the original Angolan "5/4" concept with the odd number part played first. To most Brasilians, this would sound completley wrong! It places the open notes of the surdo first! Now this doesn't stop some modern surdo players in Salvador and Rio from orchestrating the open tones of the drum on BOTH parts of the timeline, in effect crossing the timeline to create a dialog between two different pitched surdos. This kind of thing is becoming increasingly more common, especially since the advent of Musica Axe and all it's self-conscious pan-African pan-Caribbean influences.
Again the mathematics of these timelines cannot be changed or the patterm will be disolved, yet the musicians are really free to choose to begin on ANY beat or even with a rest on one of the silent pulses. Reversing the order of the parts of the pattern is also another choice, but does this happen in any region of Africa?
I think that Afro-Cuban music went through another metamorphisis when Machito's band began to interact with U.S, Jazz musicians, who came from a cultural region DEVOID of time line patterns. Again, Kubik addressed some of this in Africa and the Blues in his chapter. "A Strange Absence." This alone dilineates one of the MAJOR differences between African- American music and that of the Caribbean and Brasil. Other than the later assimilation of Cuban clave and Brasilian samba time lines, the music of the US doesn't display this uniquely African musical trait.
With this in mind, Mario Bauza it is suggested, first wrote 2/3 or 3/2 on his band charts to impart that vital information to his US born horn soloists. Now certainly someone had to have done something like this previously, yet I know of NO earlier source for its notation in Cuban musical history. Now we know that the musicians were EMPLOYING these concepts. Perhaps the Brasilian musical experience can give us an idea how such a key concept as time line patterns can be transmitted for generations in a musical form without garnering a literary record. It would make for a great research topic there.
In the end I'm inclined to agree with you that the 3/2 - 2/3 clave likely began in Cuba, but was not articulated until it came to the US. Again, this shows how Cuban music is still in a creative state of flux, and will undoubtably continue to do so.


Saludos,



Berimbau

[davidpenalosa]

Now on to your inquiry. I think that if we do a little comparitive study, we will discover that the 3/2 - 2/3 clave conception in Cuba may indeed have originated there.

If you study Kubik's time line pyramid note that it is divided, like clave, into two seperate parts. One part of the pyramid always has an even number of beats in it while the other part always has an uneven number of beats in it. Cuban clave, with the ultimate reduction of beats into two in one part and three in the other part, represents the essential asymetrical geometry of these dichotomous patterns. Like yin and yang, patrix and matrix, each part, or "side' to use a Cuban term, both defines and compliments the other.

With this in mind, Mario Bauza it is suggested, first wrote 2/3 or 3/2 on his band charts to impart that vital information to his US born horn soloists. Now certainly someone had to have done something like this previously, yet I know of NO earlier source for its notation in Cuban musical history.

Berimbau,
As you say, Kubik's timelines are divided, like clave, into two separate halves. Most timeline patterns contain two opposing halves. The two halves are generated by opposing beat cycles. These beat cycles are specific; the "math" as you call it, is consistent. So, if we are talking about a djun djun part from Senegal, or bell patterns from Ghana, Nigeria, Congo, Brazil, Haiti, or the clave in Cuba, the generating principle is invariable. On this "molecular" level of the rhythmic matrix, the three interlocking beat cycles are identical in all of the music from the various countries mentioned above. The quality of the first half of the timeline is consistent with what is called the "three-side" of clave. The quality of the second half is consistent with what’s called the "two-side".

Timeline patterns which are identical in each half, like cinquillo, typically reinforce the quality of the first half, what would be called in clave lingo the "three-side".

||XoXX|oXXo|XoXX|oXXo|| cinquillo
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

Back to the two-sided timeline patterns: Some percussion parts begin playing in the second half, but I am talking here about the entire cross-rhythmic matrix generated by the ensemble. The matrix is initiated in the first half of the timeline pattern. The repeating cycle of tension-release begins with the tension.

Most of the lead drum parts I’ve encountered begin on the first half of the timeline pattern. Although I haven’t made anything close to a study of this, probably most of the accompanying songs also begin in the first half. However, there are plenty of songs that begin in the second half as well.

The Ghanaians have some songs that begin in the first half of the timeline pattern and some songs that begin in the second half. The various drum parts enter on either side too, depending on the particular piece of music. The 3-2, 2-3 terminology and concept could be applied to explain these phenomena, but the Ghanaians don’t employ it. C.K. Ladzekpo sat in on an excellent lecture on 3-2, 2-3 by John Santos. At the end, John asked C.K. for his input. In regards to the 2-3 concept, C.K. chuckled and said, "we just think of it as beginning in the second half of the bell". C.K. has told me that his culture perceives the standard pattern as a whole. That is not to deny its two halves, about which C.K. has written eloquently. I think it’s just that the two halves do not confuse them, they seem to do an excellent job of keeping their proper orientation with all those great rhythmic tricks happening.

It’s pretty clear to me that the 3-2, 2-3 concept was developed for those not as familiar with African timeline patterns as your average Ghanaian. Specifically, it was developed so that musicians could begin chord progressions (the "harmonic one") from either side of the timeline pattern. Bobby Sanabria told me that Machito’s Afro-Cubans were the first group who flipped the chord progressions from one side of the clave to the other within a single song, while maintaining the continuity of clave. Bobby called it "clave counterpoint". As I understand it, up until that time, chord progressions would start on either side of the clave, but Mario Bauza was the first to employ the technique of going from one side to the other within the same song. It was because of this development that rhythmic arranger Bauza devised the 3-2, 2-3 terminology and concept for the benefit of the harmonic arranger Edgar Sampson. Sampson could keep track of which side of clave he was on.

Here’s an excerpt from Bobby, where he laid it out for me during the Latinjazz e-group’s clave / beats discussion a couple of years ago:

"The concept of utilizing 3/2 and 2/3 as a terminology developed in NYC. I have done extensive research on this through my research with many of the legendary figures in this tradition most notably Mario Bauzá who I played for eight years.

In fact I would strongly say that he started the terminology. It is incontrovertible in that it works, it's logical and cannot be denied in its effectiveness in the "real world." It's also beautiful in its simplicity. What fascinates me is that other cultures did not develop the concept.

Mario told me many times that when he first utilized Edgar Sampson to write the very first drafts of arrangements for the Machito Afro-Cubans that he would draw for Sampson 3 sticks underneath the bar with the 3 side and 2 sticks underneath the bar with the 2 side. This way he would always know rhythmically where he was in the chart and supervise Sampson who was unaware of the clave concept in Cuban music. Mario utilized Sampson's harmonic mastery and Mario utilized his rhythmic mastery. Sampson asked Mario "Why does it have to be this way?" Mario told me that he looked at Sampson and said "This is what makes Cuban music Cuban!"

This concept of drawing the sticks underneath the corresponding bars to the 3 side and 2 side was also a technique that Tito Puente learned from Mario. Oscar Hernandez, José Madera, Louis Ramirez (RIP), Luis "Perico" Ortiz and myself utilize this technique on occasion as do countless others. Imagine yourself writing a chart in the Afro-Cuban tradition. It's late, the phone rings, you have a million things on your mind, etc. You come back to the chart in the middle of an idea and with those sticks as reference points you know where you are clave wise. Another way of doing it is to simply write the number 3 underneath the 3 side bar and 2 underneath the 2 side bar. In this way one can do some fascinated writing utilizing asymetric phrases that still maintain clave integrity and maximum rhythmic intensity.

The evidence can be found in old manuscripts that I've seen but the true proof is in the incredible ways that the Machito Afro-Cubans utilized "Clave Counterpoint" (going from one side of the clave to the other while without crossing it and maintaining its integrity) in the music they recorded and obviously performed live. They were the first band to actually exploit these possibilities to "...maintain maximum rhythmic intensity to energize the human organism..." to quote Eddie Palmieri. René Hernandez, Jose Madera Sr. and Ray Santos Sr. as well as Tito and others were masters at it."
(end quote)

That was a priceless gift from Bobby Sanabria because it answered a lot of my nagging questions concerning 3-2, 2-3. Mario Bauza is one of those pivotal musicians like Arsenio Rodriguez. After mastering Classical music and Cuban popular music, he moved to NYC in the 1930’s to play jazz. While in Chick Webb’s group, Webb told Bauza "you play with a Cuban accent". Consequently, Webb tutored Bauza in jazz’s nuances. It makes sense that it was Bauza who was uniquely qualified to blend jazz and clave. The 3-2, 2-3 concept was an important tool in that bridging.

I think it's likely that some aspect of the 3-2, 2-3 concept originated in Cuba, but the concept as we understand it today may not have been required until Machito began his complicated "clave counterpoint" arrangements. The Cubans I've met are not familiar with the concept, so I've come to believe it's a NYC thing.

In her "Salsa Guidebook", Rebeca Mauleon explains that clave "direction": "..can be played two ways: three-two or two-three, depending upon which measure is first" (pg.47). The conventional wisdom is that if you begin your part in the three-side, it’s three-two and if you begin on the two-side, it’s two-three.

However, this understanding is unwittingly contradicted in her section "The Melody and Clave" (pg. 159). This section concerns the technique of beginning the harmonic progression from either side of the clave, although she doesn’t mention that.

I unfortunately don’t have the capability to post the various examples from her book. Please bear with the primitive pulse notation I can do from my keyboard. For purposes of analysis I’m showing the following two phrases in 3-2 sequence.

On pg. 160, ex.4.176 Rebeca shows a phrase (rumba Diana) that begins on 3+. The phrase clearly starts on the two-side.

||oooo|oooo|ooXo|XoXo|| beginning of phrase ex.4.176
||XooX|ooXo|ooXo|Xooo|| clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

In ex. 4.177 she shows another phrase ("El Manicero") beginning on 3+.

||oooo|oooo|ooXX|XXXX|| beginning of phrase ex.4.177
||XooX|ooXo|ooXo|Xooo|| clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

Even though the rumba diana clearly begins on the two-side she says it is a 3-2 figure. In fact she says "it is OBVIOUSLY a 3-2 melody (with a pick-up)". Obviously? Yes, from a harmonic perspective the progression is in a 3-2 sequence. The phrase in ex.4.177, while beginning on the same pulse, is in the opposite sequence: 2-3. How can two phrases beginning in the same place in relationship to clave be in opposite sequences? Because harmony trumps rhythm in the 3-2, 2-3 terminology and concept.

3-2, 2-3 has been a helpful tool for many of us, but it has generated as much confusion as knowledge when it’s been inappropriately applied to any genre of Afro-folkloric music. The biggest pitfall is the concept of a reversible "rhythmic one", which works in Cuban popular music, but not in folkloric music. Even worse is the misunderstanding that there are 3-2 rhythms and 2-3 rhythms.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1139900074

[Berimbau]

David,
You ask an interesting question about the direction of time line patterns... Despite the linear orientation of musical transcription, I have always concieved them as circular in nature. Looped, in fact, if I can appropriate Gary Harding's similar terminology.
Harding also employs a cultural-specific term, bembe wheels, to describe this phenomenology. Realizing that he had come to a similar conclusion regarding the nature of time line patterns, I e-mailed him an inquiry. Unfortunately, in his angry reply it became quite apparent that his personality was as repellant as Tonya Harding, who may be a not-too-distant relative!! He was unwilling to share or discuss ANY of his research. Now wanting to avoid a possible baseball bat beating at the hands of a likely psychopath, I left him alone.
Far friendlier folks have a web site that touches on bembe wheels, and they are at:

http://www.rhythmweb.com/shed/bembe.htm

Harding can also be contacted there as well, or perhaps at his famous cousin's trailer.............




Saludos,



Berimbau

[windhorse]

Do you think of Iyesa as 2/3?

[davidpenalosa]

You ask an interesting question about the direction of time line patterns... Despite the linear orientation of musical transcription, I have always concieved them as circular in nature. Looped, in fact, if I can appropriate Gary Harding's similar terminology.

Harding also employs a cultural-specific term, bembe wheels, to describe this phenomenology. Realizing that he had come to a similar conclusion regarding the nature of time line patterns, I e-mailed him an inquiry.

Timeline patterns are definitely looped cycles; African music is divisive rhythm. The rhythmic "pie" is divided into even sections. However, there is a cycle of four main beats grounding the rhythmic matrix and there is definitely a "beat one"; it’s the stroke where everybody begins the standard pattern. Once the pattern repeats, it becomes looped, like the snake holding its tail in its mouth. Historically, ethnomusicologists have tended to over-complicate (over-romanticize?) the situation and deny the existence of a "one", or even a simple beat scheme.

It’s important to distinguish between a MODULE (a series of strokes considered from the purely abstract perspective, with no fixed relationship to the main beats) and a PATTERN (a series of strokes with a definite fixed relationship to the main beats). You can consider the standard pattern from the abstract perspective of a movable rhythmic module. As discussed earlier, this series of strokes is found in two different bell parts. This module is commonly found in two different relationships to the beats. However, once you fix this module in these two different relationships to the main beats, they become two completely DIFFERENT PATTERNS.

||XoX|oXX|oXo|XoX|| off-beat bell (standard pattern)
||XoX|oXo|XXo|XoX|| on-beat bell
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| four main beats w/ subdivisions

To put it bluntly, Gary Harding's "bembe wheel" is bogus. He grasps the idea of the standard pattern considered from the perspective of a movable module, but then extends this to the suggestion that the module appears in all possible relationships to the main beats. The website that shows his idea, uses the terms "long bell" and "short bell" :p. This is a case of a little bit of knowledge getting Harding into trouble.

http://www.rhythmweb.com/shed/bembe.htm

The off-beat bell and the on-beat bell have a unique relationship to each other. You can conduct an experiment using a "standard pattern wheel". I wish I could post this graphic, but you can generate it yourself at home if you follow these steps:

1- draw a circle
2- divide the circle into quarters
3- divide the quarters into thirds so that you end up with twelve even divisions of the circle.
4- Beginning at the right hand top, color in the divisions of the circle corresponding to the strokes of the standard pattern. This will look like: colored, blank, colored, blank, colored, colored, etc.
5- At the top of your "standard pattern wheel" you will notice two strokes together. This is beat one and the pick-up on 4a. Reverse your direction (go counter-clockwise), now making 4a - beat one and beat one now the pick-up. You will notice that the series of strokes in the opposite direction is the on-beat bell.

I know this is a difficult thing to describe. If you try it and don’t get it, send me an email message and I’m sure I can help you.

The idea of rhythmic modules appearing in all possible relationships to the beats is totally valid. The modules are just simpler though. For example, these two modules appear in all possible relationships to the beats and in both triple pulse structure ("6/8") and duple pulse structure ("4/4"):

XXoX

XoXX

-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1139945453

[davidpenalosa]

Do you think of Iyesa as 2/3?

Hi Windhorse,
Iyesa is neither in 3-2 nor 2-3. The rhythm iyesa does not have a particular clave sequence, neither does guaguanco, bembe, or any other African, or African-based rhythm I've encountered. Now, there are 3-2 and 2-3 songs in iyesa, guaguanco and bembe, but the percussion does not have a designated clave sequence, other than the "one" is the first stroke of the three-side. You are not the only one who has applied the 3-2, 2-3 concept inacurrately to rhythms.

There is a rhythmic phenomena that's worth mentioning though, because it leads many people to percieve iyesa as a "2-3 rhythm". In African rhythm there is a phenomena I call "beat motifs". These are rhythmic motifs based on main beats. For example, there's the "one-beat motif": if you hear one main beat emphasized in 6/8 music, most likely it's beat one:

||Xoo|ooo|ooo|ooo|| one-beat motif in 6/8
||XoX|oXo|oXo|Xoo|| clave
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| beats w/ pulses

You hear this in palo, bembe, chachalokuafun, etc.

There is an interesting rhythmic motif found in makuta, yuka and iyesa where there's a one-beat motif on the opposite side of the clave. This "4/4 one-beat motif" has been adapted into guaguanco, conga de comparsa and salsa. In fact, it's one of the main determinites of where clave is in salsa. If you hear one main beat emphasized in 4/4 Cuban music, most likely it's main beat three:

||oooo|oooo|Xooo|oooo|| 4/4 one-beat motif
||XooX|ooXo|ooXo|Xooo|| clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

When we hear the low drum play on a main beat, we automatically interpret that beat as "one". In iyesa however, it's really beat three. I've see dancers do a little involuntary shuffle when the bata drums shift from chachalokuafun (low drum on 1) to iyesa (low drum on 3), because they want to put their right foot on the "boom" of the low drum. It's where they want to feel "one". I almost always have to work with dancers so they will maintain their feet consistantly with clave ("it's OK to put your left foot with the low drum").

This 4/4 one-beat motif is one of the reasons so many people mistakenly perceive guaguanco as a "2-3 rhythm". The segundo is on beat three, not beat one.

In 6/8 you commonly find a two-beat motif and a three-beat motif:

||Xoo|ooo|ooo|Xoo|| two-beat motif
||Xoo|ooo|Xoo|Xoo|| three-beat motif
||XoX|oXo|oXo|Xoo|| clave
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| beats w/ pulses

The two-beat and three-beat motifs are common rhythmic motifs found in the vocabulary of lead drum parts for bembe, chachalokuafun and palo. They are also common motifs found in the itotele and iya bata enu melodies, as well as Northwest African djun djun parts.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you need some clarification. I realize that my posts may induce a coma.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Do you think of Iyesa as 2/3?

simple answer:
There is no such thing as a "3-2 rhythm" or "2-3 rhythm" per sé.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

I thought some drummers might find it interesting if I posted examples of the two main ways to think of a song beginning on the two-side of clave. Below I’ve written the first two syllables of the bembe/agbe song "ki ki ki Yemaya olodo". The song begins on main beat three.

||ooo|ooo|Xoo|Xoo|| "ki ki" syllables
||XoX|oXX|oXo|XoX|| standard pattern
||XoX|oXo|oXo|Xoo|| clave
||1+a|2+a|3+a|4+a|| beats w/ pulses

I think this is how many, if not most percussionists perceive this chorus. It starts in the second half of the standard (6/8) bell pattern. It’s a 2-3 song, but most percussionists are not in the habit of beginning the 6/8 bell half-way through the pattern.

Below are the first four syllables of the iyesa song "chemba chemba" (Eleggua). This song also begins on main beat three.

||oooo|oooo|XoXo|XoXo|| "chemba chemba" syllables
||XooX|ooXo|ooXo|Xooo|| clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

However, because of the pervasiveness of popular music aesthetics, many percussionists are more comfortable perceiving the chorus and the percussion from a 2-3 perspective, putting the "one" on the two-side. If written in standard notation, the chorus would begin in the first measure.

iyesa song from 2-3 perspective
||XoXo|XoXo|oooo|oooo|| "chemba chemba" syllables
||ooXo|Xooo|XooX|ooXo|| 2-3 clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

This is a band concept being applied to folkloric music. To put it in a popular music perspective, the chorus begins on "one" in 2-3 clave. Many drummers think in this way because the rhythm is in 4/4 and the first beat of the two side is emphasized by the drums. We are more comfortable when "one" is emphasized.

Below are the open tones of the lowest iyesa drum called baba or bajo:

||oooo|ooXo|Xooo|oooo|| iyesa baba or bajo drum
||XooX|ooXo|ooXo|Xooo|| clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

The part, like several of the percussion parts in iyesa, begins on the primary ponche (2+), the ponche that aligns with the third stroke of son clave. The first stroke is in the first half of clave, but ponche is perceived as a pick-up into the next half. So, many drummers think of this part and in fact the entire rhythm as being in 2-3.

baba drum from 2-3 perspective
||Xooo|oooo|oooo|ooXo|| iyesa baba or bajo drum
||ooXo|Xooo|XooX|ooXo|| 2-3 clave
||1e+a|2e+a|3e+a|4e+a|| main beats w/ pulses

Most drummers seem to be comfortable perceiving all 6/8 music from a 3-2 perspective. In 4/4, most drummers are more comfortable in a 2-3 perspective. Does anyone take issue with this opinion? ???
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1139971409

[windhorse]

Do you think of Iyesa as 2/3?

Iyesa is neither in 3-2 nor 2-3. The rhythm iyesa does not have a particular clave sequence, neither does guaguanco, bembe, or any other African, or African-based rhythm I've encountered. Now, there are 3-2 and 2-3 songs in iyesa, guaguanco and bembe, but the percussion does not have a designated clave sequence, other than the "one" is the first stroke of the three-side. You are not the only one who has applied the 3-2, 2-3 concept inacurrately to rhythms.

OK, Dave, I asked if you thought of Iyesa as 2-3.
First you say it's wrong to have a clave sequence at all in mind for rhythms. (or is that what you mean?) One of the bells we play on it is a bell playing clave. To me that would be where the clave in the song would be. (Is it wrong to play that bell with the regular high and low Iyesa bells? Your mapping of the song shows that what we think of as the "one" (as the drummers) is your three. Our clave then starts after your three, as the last two beats of 3-2 clave, or what I think of as 2-3. The rhythm chart you show verifies that though I might be thinking of clave backwards from you, we agree on the rhythm structure. Is that an example of why you say there's no particular clave in rhythms?
Since we can have a different "one" and still get the same job done?

Why did you say that I "applied the 3-2, 2-3 concept inacurrately to rhythms" though I didn't apply it in a question - except in formulating the question?

What about Mozambique? Comparsa?
Again, we think of them as having a two-three clave bell. Are we thinking of the "one" as your "three"?
Did I learn everything wrong?
Or does it matter at all, and we may use different terminology for the "one" and what we call the clave, yet still have exactly the same "motif"?



Edited By windhorse on 1139975898

[davidpenalosa]

Since we can have a different "one" and still get the same job done?

Why did you say that I "applied the 3-2, 2-3 concept inacurrately to rhythms" though I didn't apply it in a question - except in formulating the question?

Hi Windhorse,
Great questions. I’m truly enjoying this. Yes, it’s "incorrect" to think that a rhythm has a clave sequence at all. I’m using the term "rhythm" in this instance to mean the sum of all the percussion parts comprising a rhythm like iyesa. You have the iyesa rhythm, bembe rhythm, guaguanco rhythm, etc. There aren’t 3-2 rhythms and 2-3 rhythms per sé. So, it’s a mistake to think of iyesa as being fixed in one of the two possible clave sequences. The very act of formulating the question you originally posed is an inaccurate application of the 3-2, 2-3 concept. Sorry, I know that might sound rigid and I don’t mean to stifle anybody’s creativity, or anything like that. I’m trying to distinguish between the dynamic of rhythmic tension-release and harmonic tension-release.

The iyesa rhythm, like all clave-based rhythms, generates cycles of tension-release through the clave matrix, independent of any chord progression. The tension-release of clave begins on the three side. Tension in the three-side and release in the two-side. I remember in 1980 when NYC conguero Carlos Gomez had an opportunity to play with some Cubans who had newly arrived in the States. When he told me about his experience, the news was that the Cubans "play everything in 3-2". Years later, I look back and understand that what was really going on was that the rhythms were not perceived in terms of being in either sequence. How do Cubans begin the standard pattern, or clave pattern in bembe, palo, abakua, columbia, guaguanco, yambu, conga de comparsa, mozambique, or any other folkloric rhythm that uses either of those time line patterns? They always begin the standard pattern or clave on the three-side. That’s the rhythmic progression of clave

You can play a 3-2 piano montuno or a 2-3 piano montuno over any clave-based rhythm. The rhythm can be iyesa, or son montuno, it doesn’t matter; the percussion parts maintain their inter-locking relationships regardless of the harmonic sequence of the montuno. The dynamics of the clave matrix don’t switch from one side of the clave to the other.

The harmonic sequence and therefore the harmonic "one" can switch though. That’s what 3-2 and 2-3 montunos do. When you have a chord progression superimposed over a clave-based rhythm, you have two types of tension-release dynamics happening simultaneously: rhythmic and harmonic. A 2-3 montuno generates rhythmic and harmonic progressions cycling in a kind of opposition. That’s an alluring quality of a 2-3 montuno.

Check out Kevin Moore’s article "The Four Great Clave Debates" at timba.com:
http://www.timba.com/fans/clave_debates.asp
Clave Debate #3 is "There is no such thing as 2-3 clave". He raises the issue, but ends up with more questions than answers. Kevin only had the popular music as reference. What he didn’t know back then (2001), but knows now, is how clave is perceived in its original folkloric context. Clave needs to be understood independently of any chord progression.

Certainly there are some folkloric drums parts and some 4/4 bell parts that begin on the two-side. Thinking in terms of 3-2, 2-3 can be helpful in entering the rhythm correctly, but entering with your part on the two-side does not effect the rhythmic progression of clave.

If you were playing iyesa in some kind of band format, with keyboards, and everything, I imagine that it could be useful to think of playing in "3-2 iyesa", or "2-3 iyesa" as a way of orientating the percussion to the harmonic progression.

In popular music one has to be able to begin the clave on either side. When playing in a band, the harmonic progression supercedes the rhythmic progression. Once you learn how to begin your patterns on either side of the clave, playing with a 3-2 montuno or a 2-3 montuno feels natural. We naturally follow the harmonic progression.

You are right, we can have a different "one" and still get the same job done. From what I can tell, we play the iyesa rhythm the same way. So what does it matter? The difference is between thinking of a rhythm as being in 3-2 or 2-3 and thinking of the rhythm as being IN CLAVE. I think the main reason you are comfortable with thinking of iyesa as being a 2-3 rhythm, is because the downbeat of the two-side is emphasized. It’s much more comfortable having "one" emphasized. You may want to experiment with beginning clave on the three-side and hearing all folkloric rhythms from that perspective. I identify with where you are coming from. I was there once, but now, this is where I’m coming from. You can try my suggestion and see if it clicks.
-David