Standard ("6/8") Bell Pattern - analysis of bell patterns

[davidpenalosa]

Now I will have to disagree with you on the djembe. The pitch level of that instrument has been raised significantly since the recent advent of the ubiquitous Ballets Africains with their attendent showy lead drummers as well as through the introduction of Western made nylon rope to tune them. The old time leather strap tuned djembes had a much lower pitch.

Although many peoples from the Western Sudanic belt were also major players in the formation of African-American culture, there is no evidence that the djembe was ever actually played on US soil. Ditto for Cuba and Brasil, where Manding speaking peoples were a distinct minority.

Hi Berimbau,
My point about the djembe concerns relative pitch. Would you agree that the lowest pitched drum djun djun is not the lead, but the foundation? This is an unusal, but not unheard of pitch relationship for an African lead drum and a supporting drum. I doubt the relative pitch of the djembe and djun djun is attributable to European influences.

I wasn't trying to imply that the djembe have had any influence on rumba, or any other Cuban or Brazilian lead drum (except the relatively recent Bahian timbao). My point was that there are some African drum systems where the foundation is on a lowest pitched drum and the lead is on the highest pitched drum. The djembes of old, with their leather strapping, were still higher in pitch than the djun djuns of old. No? ???
-David

[Berimbau]

Your point regarding the pitch relationships between lead and supporting drums in Africa is well made. Yes, I do agree that the djembes were probably always higher than the duns. Yes I realize that you are not projecting THAT evidence onto Cuban or Brasilian drums. And no, I do not think that European musical values are evident in TRADITIONAL djembe drumming. They are, however, quite evident in Cuba and Brasil, and to a much larger extent than some might think.


Saludos,



Berimbau

[davidpenalosa]

..I do not think that European musical values are evident in TRADITIONAL djembe drumming. They are, however, quite evident in Cuba and Brasil, and to a much larger extent than some might think.

I'm with you there. I'd be interested in hearing about other areas where European musical values have had an impact in Brazilian folkloric music.
-David

[Zeno]

Somebody say dusty LPs? Hello.....

Drums: Claudio Slon
Timbales and percussion: Rubens Bassini
Congas, percussion, and vocals: Laudir Soares de Oliveira
Special Thanks: Airto Moreira (Percussion)


Man I have to get back to listening to all these great old LPs.... mmmmm mmmm

Zeno

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[Zeno]

While I was in that section I pulled this out....

Zeno

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... a_No.3.jpg

[davidpenalosa]

I think there ought to be a thread dedicated to showing cool old LP covers. I love looking at them.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Just when you thought it was safe……
I’m back!
I said I would return to the idea of clave theory applied to Brazilian music. So, here I am.

I recently had an enlightening meeting with Dr. Eugene Novotney, who just returned from Bahia and Rio. Our discussion centered mainly around the various ways teachers have presented samba here on the West Coast over the last 30 years and comparing that with how Mestre Odilion Costa and other samba masters present the music.

While the Brazilians don’t use a universal timeline pattern like clave to relate all their rhythms to, the samba charts Eugene brought back with him show the same "clave consistencies" one finds in Cuban music. The charts are written in what you would call a 3-2 "direction" or sequence, because as I’ve said before, that’s the natural rhythmic progression of the music. If a Cuban were to look at these charts, I believe they would easily understand them in terms of clave (meaning "code" or "key", as in "key to a puzzle"). While the code is widely understood within the context of Afro-Cuban rhythms, it originated in Africa where it flourishes in myriad variations. I see the same rhythmic motifs, and governing principles in Brazilian and Cuban music and in the various African music I’ve been exposed to as well. I don’t hear Cuban music to be any more rhythmically developed in terms of the code than Brazilian or West African music.

My conversation with Eugene is on-going, but I can say that I think the main shortcoming of the American samba teachers has been their view of the music through the 3-2, 2-3 prism. As I’ve said earlier in this thread though, I believe that to be a problem in the understanding of Afro-Cuban folkloric music too.

It’s important to remember that 3-2, 2-3 is mostly a harmonic rather than rhythmic classification. The "3-2 clave", "2-3 clave" terminology and concept codifies the two main ways in which the rhythmic progression and harmonic progression may be juxtaposed. 3-2, 2-3 conceives of a reversible "harmonic one". There are two possible "harmonic ones": "one of the three-side", or "one of the two-side".

3-2, 2-3 is the single clave concept, which is inappropriately applied to non-Cuban music. It is specifically the idea of a reversible "rhythmic one" which does not apply non-Cuban music, or to Afro-Cuban folkloric music for that matter.

Where many American samba teachers have gone wrong is to conceive of samba as having a reversible "rhythmic one". No doubt that misunderstanding was fueled by the fact that the agogo and tamborim parts used to enter the ensemble on the two-side, whereas these days, they tend to enter on the three-side. Just like the Cuban mozambique (see my Feb. 16 post in this thread), the various percussion parts enter in different places in relation to clave. This does not imply that the rhythm itself has reversible "one".
-David

[Zeno]

Thanks for the clarity on that David.

I just happen to be perusing the two volumes by Harold Courlander: Haiti Singing (1939), and The Drum And The Hoe (1960). Between these two volumes on the music and lore of Haiti and neary 200 pages of transcibed music and song including at least two dozen parts written out specifically for either Ogan, Sticks, Cata, Clave, Rattle, or Hand Clapping, I did see exactly one and only one example of the related time line pattern written for Ogan in 4/4 standard notation, (with triplets):

4/4 |0x0x00x0x00x|0x0x00x0x00x|

(page 294, example 157: "For Ayida", in the 1960 book)

0=stroke x=rest pulse

Before I noticed this one example, I thought momentarily that the pattern would be totally absent which would have seemed strange to me because I was under the impression that the pattern was somewhat omnipresent there. Then I did notice this one example. The pattern per se is not apparently mentioned or singled out anywhere else in either book. Some of the other notations are in 12/8, 6/8, 5/4, 7/8, with most in 4/4. At any rate this seems to be the perspective of Courlander who started his research in the late 30s.

{I guess somehow I thought he might have been particularly intrigued by the pattern as we all seem to be -- I mean the Haitian variation of course}

Other patterns in the book are something like this
(as I interpret them):

Claves: 4/4 0xx|000x00xx|000x00xx|000x00xx|000x00xx|

or

Ogan: 12/8 |x0x00x0x00x0|x0x00x0x00x0|

I kid you not. That 12/8 pattern is what is notated and often.
(don't forget, my "0" is a stroke)

other Ogan: 4/4 |0x00x00x0x00x00x|0x00x00x0x00x00x|



Ogan 4/4 |00xx0x0x|00xx0x0x|
oops, I got that wrong, even though it is written in 4/4 it is better expressed with triple pulse box notation as:

|0x0xxx0xx0xx|0x0xxx0xx0xx|

this last example, strange as it seems, is written as a quarter note bound to a half note -- both within a triplet grouping --I assume this means that those 3 quarters worth take up the duration of two quarters (talk about unneccessary contortions!), then the remainder of the measure is two more quarter notes. Man, you see why some people hate SN for percussion. Take a look at the chart and tell me how you would interpret. Maybe it needs to be broken up half a measure in triple pulse and half in duple pulse, I don't know.

Zeno

PS:The musical notation, fittingly, is by Dr. Mieczyslaw Kolinski.

hey thanks Mieczy,
ok for me to call you Mieczy...
I feel like we are old buddies,
after the amount of time
I have spent with your notation :p



Edited By Zeno on 1141331443

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[Zeno]

Courlander states:

"In earlier chapters, extracts of song texts were chosen with the objective of clearly projecting the sense of the words. In a number of instances these extracts do not exactly coincide with the parts chosen by Dr. Kolinski for transcription. Dr. Kolinski found that musical phrasing does not necessarily start at the same point as the word phrasing. Occasionally he chose for musical notation a stanza other than the one from which the words were quoted elsewhere in the book."


hmmmm....now I am wondering if all that academically diligent transcription effort might not be virtually worthless by today's standards and knowledge.... (anyone know if his work is considered at all accurate today?)
I do not actually know enough about all this to make that kind of a judgement, but I wonder if one were to go back to the original recordings ("deposited in the Indiana U. archives of Folk and Primitive Music"), if one would come up with anything like his notations or even the same implied musical results).

Maybe it is all OK...just curious. It is a beautiful book in any case.

Zeno



Edited By Zeno on 1141287605

[Zeno]

Clearly he knew the Haitian bell pattern and could notate it:

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... n_Bell.jpg

[Zeno]

Here is that 12/8 example:
(is this bell part weird, or what?
maybe it's me?)



Edited By Zeno on 1141288347

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[davidpenalosa]

Hi Zeno,
It’s not you, they are weird. There’s a long history of ethnomusicologists writing African-based rhythms incorrectly. Their misunderstanding is sometimes based on an inability to identify the four primary beats. I believe that was Harold Courlander’s problem.

|0x0x00|x0x00x| ogan as you wrote it

The pattern above seems to be the standard pattern starting on the fifth stroke.

|0x0x00|x0x0x0| standard pattern

Of course, it could be the variation I call the on-beat bell, which is also played in Haiti:

|0x0x0x|00x0x0| on-beat bell

Both patterns contain the same series of strokes and rests.

Then there’s the last pattern you showed..

|x0x00x|0x00x0| last ogan part you showed.

This seems to be another case of not hearing the pattern in its proper relationship to the primary beats. This last pattern appears to begin on 3a: the rest before the stroke on beat 4. The charts showing the accompanying drums can probably determine if it’s the standard (off-beat) bell or the on-beat bell. In other words, the drums ought to be able to tell you where the beats are, if those parts are written correctly. That’s a big IF.

There's a bata instructional book and CD called "The Sacred Music of Cuba"(1999) by Nanette Garcia and Maurice Minichino in which the drum parts are written one subdivision off! Can you imagine learning the entire igbodu displaced by one pulse from its true relationship to the beat?!!

I think it all comes down to not knowing that all this music is generated from the three-over-two cell. You have to correctly identify the primary beats. That’s the starting point.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1141345573

[Zeno]

Hi David,

What do you make of that other ogan pattern:

Ogan 4/4 |00xx0x0x|00xx0x0x|
oops, I got that wrong, even though it is written in 4/4 it is better expressed with triple pulse box notation as:
|0x0xxx0xx0xx|0x0xxx0xx0xx|


How would you interpret that measure with the triplet tied quarter+half.

Ps. you left off the last strokes on a couple of your notations, please edit for posterity and the confused lurkers reading up on all thils.

Zeno

[davidpenalosa]

What do you make of that other ogan pattern:
|0x0xxx0xx0xx|0x0xxx0xx0xx|

How would you interpret that measure with the triplet tied quarter+half.

Ps. you left off the last strokes on a couple of your notations, please edit for posterity and the confused lurkers reading up on all thils.

Thanks for alerting me to the strokes I forgot to notate. Are you referring to the vocal line when you ask about the "triplet tied quarter+half"?

About the ogan pattern, I like to write it with a line down the middle so I can concieve of the two sides of clave. This is a logical alignment of the pattern with clave. The three-side has secondary (cross) beats and the two-side has primary beats. Clave 101.
|0x0x0x|x0x0xx| clave
|0x0xxx|0xx0xx| ogan pattern

|0x0x0x|0x0x0x| secondary beats
|0xx0xx|0xx0xx| primary beats

-Dr. Clave



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1141346325

[Berimbau]

Just a quick note about the transcriptions before I retire to my movie, "Casino Royale." My friend Harold Courlander was primarily a folklorist, so most of his transcriptions were done by musicologists. That is where the trouble lies.....



Saludos,



Berimbau