Argh! Microphone Questions!

[Ben]

I'm looking for some advice on microphones. I play both drum kit and percussion, and would like to be somewhat economical in my first microphone foray. This is primarily for live miking.

1.
I'm thinking about buying 2 overhead condensors (probably the Oktava MK12's), along with the DMK57 setup by Shure; (three 57's and a beta 52).

For a multi-percussion setup I could use the 57's on the congas and use the overheads for timbale/bongo/percussion. I'm not sure how to mic a cajon, maybe the overheads plus the beta 52?

The kit setup is easier, 57's on toms (or snare depending if I'm using a four or five piece), beta 52 on kick drum and overheads, well, overhead.

I'm thinking this is overkill. I could just buy the overheads plus a beta 52. Would this be enough to properly mic the percussion setup? Say, two overheads and a beta 52 on the cajon (if that's the right way to do it; see next question...) Of couse, at this point the only difference is a few 57s, which are pretty cheap in the scope of things.

2.
How does one mike a cajon?

3.
Would the pair of condensors be good for miking a bata ensemble?

Thanks for your help!

[onile]

Alafia Abure Ben!
Welcome to the forum!

First of all, it sounds like you're needing to mic a small percussion group!
If you are serious about "economics", then I advise you to consider (if $ allows) the following:

Consider the fact that you are hauling around half of the band, traps/kit/congas/timbales/bongos/bells and whistles. Add to that, the mics you'll be needing, and then you'll need mic stands of course. More stuff to haul around. Unless you have a permanent roadie, I imagine you'll be the one doing the hauling, loading and unloading, set-up and tear-down.

My recommendation is to look into some Sennheiser E-640 mics (3 or 6 of them ought to do the trick). They actually clip-on to your drums/congas/timbales/bongoes. Less stands to haul, and they're compact and can fit in a gig bag along with your mic cords.

Okay, now consider investing in a mixer, this way, YOU have control over the mixing of YOUR drums. Depending on what you have to spend, it can be done over a period of time, but first and foremost consider the sacrifice on your back!

I personally have four Sennheiser E-604s, four Sennheiser Vocal mics, one Sure 57, a Behringer 1202 mixer and numerous mic cords ranging from 3ft. to 25ft. The mics, cords, and small percussion (shakers/tamborine sticks, small guiro, and cencerro) all fit into my gig bag, and I never leave for a gig without it.

Just for consideration!

Suave!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1145847219

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... -Mixer.jpg

[onile]

now here are the mics......

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 05-Mic.jpg

[Ben]

Thanks for the welcome Onile.

I guess I wasn't clear in my post. For some gigs I play kit, for others I play percussion. I'd just want a catch-all mike setup for both situations. And if it could work for a bata ensemble, that'd be great too. I'd have to be nuts to play kit and a full percussion set up at a gig, or at least have a bigger car!

A mixer is already in the arsenal, it's a smaller version of the one you have.

I looked into the e604's, actually, very favorable reviews, especially for congas. As I understand, they're very similar to SM57's, no? I've been going back and forth between the two. I had tenatively decided on 57's, just cause they're "industry standard."

So, do you favor close miking a multi-percussion set-up with dynamic mics rather than using a pair of overhead condensors?

[onile]

Alafia Abure Ben!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings!

Wow! Well that's obviously a relief! I was thinking, without carefully considering the ramifications of such a feat :p , that you were taking them all to a gig at once!

Cool! As for "close mic'ing" versus overhead, yes I do prefer close mic'ing!
Most of the drummers that I play with in groups when I free-lance, have close mics on their drum kit, and especially conga players. The difference being the type of mics they use, and whether they are on stands (cluttery), or clip-on. The timbales however, for some reason groups have a tendency to mic with an overhead, with exception to the bells. I have seen however, in some Salsa bands, the band mic the shells, the bells and an overhead. As for me, there are some ways around this.

It's good to hear that you've already taken the initiative to gain control over your mixing, everytime I'm on a new gig, the drummer or ancillary percussionist always get an idea and say they're going to get one.

Many blessings!
Onile!

This is what I use for the timbales (connecting it to the stand)



Edited By onile on 1145895792

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _stand.jpg

[onile]

I then connect the mics to this device, which goes on the one above, and place them beneath the two shells.

I hope that this is helpful, or at least sets you thinking in this direction....

BTW both of these devices are "on-stage" pieces of equipment. You can find them on-line, or try musiciansfriend.com

Suave!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1145887181

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... and_II.jpg

[fed]

I wanted to address question 2
Here is a link http://cajondg.com/files/ritaglio19.pdf
I tend to use same approach. 10" might be too much for a sm57 though in live situation, since you would have to realy crank it.

I was just playing last night and I had it about 5" from the hole and on the angle. You should ofcourse expiriment. In general I try to find a good balance between low boom and high slap hits, where if I strike with same force the volume of those hits is close. If a sound man is unfamiliar with cajon I just keep asking him if he can here the "boom" and the "chick" well, and move the mic around.

Hope this helps. Cheers

[zaragemca]

Saludos to the brother, miking for Percussion

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This is another tread which was lost for sometime in the internet

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This is going to be only a basic knowledge in relation to Home Recording and what could be expected in some of the 'studios'....Differents mics have differents characteristics,and are going to be good to reproduce, high,middle,and low frequencies.You need to start by conditioning the place where you are going to do the recording,to eliminate overtones,vibrations,exterior noises,etc.Then the proper tuning of the instrumen,then using the proper mics to obtain the specifics frequencies,the proper setting of the parametric equalization of the system which is going to process what you are recording,and the use of the right speakers to reproduce the sound,music,etc.The final project required the technical skills and equipments for the mixing and mastering.A multiple choice for mics., could be...For Drum Kick..(AKG D112 - SENNHEISERS E602,or E609 -SHURE Beta 52,91 - NEUMANN U87)....For SNARE-PERCUSSION...( AKG C418 - SENNHEISERS E903 - SHURE SM57,PG81,SM 91 - NEUMANN 127)...FOR OVERHEADS..( AKG C411,C416,C 414 - SENNHEISERS ME105,ME102,ME104 - SHURE PG81 - NEUMANN TLM103.Also Shure have a package set PGDMK4..and AKG have a DRUM-SET Package.All in relation to budget,or availbility in the recording studios. Dr. Zaragemca
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Edited By zaragemca on 1145899204

[Thomas]

Hi guys, I'm "new" (I was only reading not writing for more than one year) in this great forum, so I wanna say "Hello" first of all. Regarding Mics:
I personally use Sennheiser e904 for close-mic'ing my congas, Bongos and Yambu Peruano. They are also great when it comes to mic toms and so on. And AKG C430 and AKG C535 as overheads for mic'ing the small percussions, effect percussions,blocks and bells, but I heard that the Rode NT5 are great overhead mics as well, have you ever had the opportunity to try them?
For miking a Cajon I would suggest to fix a mic like the e904 or a good clip-on mic at the cajon's hole!
Thomas!

[Tonio]

Hey Ben,
I will agree w/ Onile about the Senn e604's , great mics!! Especially congas and toms. Sure Sm57 is industry standard,how many do you have? But IMo the Senn's have a better tone for Congas. They have a 3 pack which is economical. You may look into investing in the LP claws, comes in handy.
Depending on the genre/gig for Bata, overheads may not do the trick. You need the lows to come out in a live situation. Usually Senn 421's are used, but Sm57/e604, e609 black face could sub. With close micing , you get more of the whole tone- low end and the highs. Since they are hyper cardioid, they have a good ambient rejection off axis. In live situations, you loose alot of the lows, so you need to balance it. Overheads are good for a drum kit to get the cymbals and some toms. they are better at mid frequency capturing, so you can loose the "OOOmph" you want -the open tones of the Bata's especially the Iya.Let the mother speak!!For example the fundamental frequency of, quinto 's open tone is around 280-350hz, segun100-250(tunning dependant). That is really hard to capture during a live gig unless you use some good SDC(small diameter condensors)without steopping all over the bass, etc.
YMMV.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1146194548

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... on_new.jpg

[Victorius]

continuing this thread...

Guys, I need your advice in choosing mics for live performance. I keep on my eye some stuff but still confused. Was wondering about mikes mounted on clip e.g AKG C 518 M for saving money and place at gigs - no stands needed - but how about vibrations when hitting drums?

wondering about:

- Shure Beta 57A - 133 Euro
- Sennheiser E 904 - 154 Euro
- Sennheiser E 609 - 170 Euro
- AKG C 518 M on clip - 178 Euro
for overheads
AKG C 1000 S

More expensive solution also for recording

- Sennheiser MD 421 II - 321 Euro
- Shure Beta 98 H/C on clip - 250 Euro
- Sennheiser E 908 D on clip - 230 Euro
For overheads:
- AKG C 391 B - 250 Euro
- AKG C 451 B - 310 Euro
- Sennheiser E 914 - 345 Euro

I'm sure every mic above is good sounding but which one most recommended in both price levels?

[akdom]

Hi there

I have 3 E604 for recordings and ggs... They changed my life.

B

[Gallichio]

I like SM57s and I also have a pair of Samson for recording. This is what the sound man used on my last gig. I don't know what number they are but I know they were Sennheiser. They sounded awesome and cliped to the rim with a rubber clip that did not scratch the drums.

[akdom]

These are the ones I have. They are just perfect. The SM57 is not made for percussions... These yes, and the clips are so handy. No more stands, easy moving around, keeps your playing freedom space wise etc...




B

[Victorius]

hitting drums doesn't cause any disruptions?

IMO sm 57 and beta 57 A are also for micing drums... perhaps I'm wrong