Conga Identification - a new one - The Yellow Drum

[blango]

Here are some pics of similar tubs:

The first two are cheap fiberglass, the third are like the tubs Congalero has. They are very different and not royce, for sure.

The last pic i got off a Dutch site.

Tony

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... erglas.jpg

[blango]

fiber

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... erglss.jpg

[blango]

Like the ones congaleo has from a dutch site.



Edited By blango on 1180455963

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... brians.jpg

[blango]

I need a hand iding these tubs - any info would be helpful. It has a gon bops stand bracket that is most likely not original.

thanks!

Tony

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ONGA33.jpg

[blango]

This one was listed on ebay about 6mo. ago, and was listed as being owned and played by the great folkloric house of AfroCuba de Matanzas.

When i see Sandy Perez next, ill ask him to varify that his family played this drum, ill let you know what he says.

Thanks!

Tony

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _conga.JPG

[blango]

Re: the yellow drum,

It looks like a cuban tackhead to me. I need some help on this one, but i beleive most of the old tack heads were short (26? - although ive seen a few taller, say 32+) and should have two holes where the strap was fixed.

Your description of the wood makes me think its fir which probably would make it Mexican, but the banding looks cuban.

The hardware is retro, for sure. The rim looks like its from a american drumset company who made congas - lugwig perhaps? or, it looks like the rim on a brazilian atabake - fairly sure, the rim is not cuban or mexican

have you taken the skin off to look for tack marks?

Tony

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... -tacky.jpg

[taikonoatama]

>i beleive most of the old tack heads were short (26? - although ive seen a few taller, say 32+)

The yellow drum is 29.75.

>should have two holes where the strap was fixed.

That's it! I can't believe I didn't mention it or put it together, but the photo makes it clear. The yellow drum had a small eye bolt near the top end, and now I realize that the hole in the shell toward the bottom, in line with it, must have been for the other strap bolt - just like the photo. And a strap this long is for wearing, not carrying, and that points to a lightweight tack head.

>have you taken the skin off to look for tack marks?

Yes, the skin is off, but there are about 37 coats of paint on the thing, though, so it's impossible to see any tack holes. I think you're right, though, about it being an old tack head - that's pretty much what I figured, especially as there are no holes for the normal placement of side plates.

>Your description of the wood makes me think its fir

I think you might be right here as well - fir is a very lightweight wood, which would make sense to use on a drum that you'd be carrying around, strapped across your shoulders, and playing standing up. How is fir supposed to be as far as sound quality for drums? I know it's related to cedar, which makes me think it might be OK, and it's used in guitar-making, but you don't often hear of fir drums, so that makes me wonder.

The current state of the project is that I've taken everything off and cleaned up all the hardware, and reglued and clamped all the loose staves - it's solid. Fully prepped for a new head. The thing is, though, that I cannot figure out how in the world they got the skin on there (they old one is shot) - I've shown it to several people who, like me, have experience putting on flat skins, and everyone is mystified. I think I'll have to order a new, smaller flesh hoop, and try to put one on the traditional way.

Thanks,

~Taiko



Edited By taikonoatama on 1180558526

[blango]

Taiko,

You should restore it to its tackhead glory!! Do you own a fire place? :laugh:

Tony

[blango]

RE: my, what i'm quite sure are Cuban Tubs.

They arrived and i am simply blown away. These drums are the most well made and they are VERY old!!

More clues - same wood as other old cuban tubs ive seen (Cuban Cedar, i think), it has the same standard (american) head, galvanized kind of bulbous bolts, and square nuts ive seen on an other Cuban conga.

The seller in FL told me he got them from an 87yr old Cuban Man.

We are getting warmer.

Where is Dario? Please share your wisdom on this one, if you will. How 'bout Mario? Any ideas?

These could be very important tubs, they are very very old, and are very very well made. Im sure they were made by one of the best makers of congas in Cuba at the time.

Vargara and Requena, and a cat in Santiago de Cuba (i have to look for his name) - none seem to have made this drum.

Does anyone know of any other of the top cuban makers of the 50's?

My friend has a 75+yr old Cuban tub with 5 bands and the same hardware as the ones we are discussing. He was given it by his old Uncle from Matanzas. - yet another lead -

So, i think this man was making tubs from the 20's to the 50's.

The attention to detail on these tubs is first class. It has the most comfortable bearing edge and very usable and functional hardware.

They are 10.75" and 11.75", and they are 29.75" high.

This made me think they were European, as they might me measured in metric units. Ill lookinto measuring them with a meter stick.

I hope you all are into this, as this is one of the coolest mistery tubs ive seen in over 15yrs of trading and rebuilding tubs. :laugh:

Ill post pics soon.

Tony

[taikonoatama]

My friend has a 75+yr old Cuban tub with 5 bands and the same hardware as the ones we are discussing. He was given it by his old Uncle from Matanzas. - yet another lead.

With all due respect, I have to throw a wrench in here, sorry. A pre-1932 conga with mechanically-tightened hardware? While it's possible someone played around with mechanically-tuned hardware for congas that far back, it's highly unlikely it would be this solid and refined. Doesn't fly for me. Unless my knowledge of the history is waaaaaaaaaaaaay off, we couldn't possibly see something like this until, at the absolute earliest, the late 1940's, and more likely 1950's. They could be contemporaneous with Requena, Solis, and Vergara, but as far as I know no one ever made mechanical hardware like this prior to that, on a conga (though it was done with bongos a few years before).

Another issue with this 75+ date has to do with the context in which congas were played back pre-1932. Remember, they didn't really enter popular music until around 1940, when Arsenio Rodriguez added them (along with piano and another horn or two) to the traditional son group of the time, creating the conjunto. All pictures I've seen show tack head drums. My expertise gets a little sketchy here, but I believe they were only used in a folkloric context back then, and if that's the case, it's even more unlikely they'd have mechanical hardware.

I'm very happy for you, though - these are definitely some sweet-looking tubs, whatever the age (even if they're *only* from the 50's). Wish I could help you out here more on the ID, but they've got me mystified along with everyone else.

~Taiko



Edited By taikonoatama on 1180641538

[blango]

Thanks for your input Taiko. What you suggest sounds right to me.

I did hear that the hardware from Reguena was before any on the congas, but this tub just looks so old, not beat up, but aged.

Yes, i hear you that its early for tuning hardware.

Re the one that my friend has, it was rebuilt by Mario at Isla Percussion, i hope he finds this post and inputs what he can into this.

According to Traveno Leon, my dear freind and master drummer, his uncle, born in 1927 gave him the drum. He thinks his uncle purchased the drum used, in Matanzas in the 40's, in the prime of his playing. He kept it all his life as his prized tub - to pass it on to Trevino in the 1990's. According to his story, his tub was made, at the latest, in the 40's.

The set i have could not be newer than the 60's, as ive seen many a vintage tub, and this one has repairs that look older than the 60's. admitidly, im not as up on Cuban makers as others on this board, so bring on the knowledge!! im all ears.

My guess, by looking at the age of the finish (after early repairs), wood and old school nails i found in one of the repairs, that this tub is early to mid 50's.

Another thought, the tumba is a full 11.75 inchs at least, weren't all the early tubs under 11.5"? This bomber has 7 lugs, and the 10.75 has 6 lugs.

It has such a modern look, with the two bands and all.

The hardware, however, and the chroming looks 60's, or way before its time in quality.

Keep in mind, they were on the coast, by the ship yards with access to metal working. The nuts and bolts are very old looking galvanized

A closer look - the side brackets were stamped out of STAINLESS steel! When was that invented? !! this could make it from the 60's at minimum, no?

It could be quite possible that this master maker was building tubs much later than Traveno's second hand story might indicate.

this is all speculation, but we must start somewhere! :;): Thanks for the help!

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ealone.jpg

[blango]

Yes, i should have remembered my "history of the conga" lessons. they did only introduce the conga into the scean durring 40's, no? And tack heads at that... I guess i got a bit happy :laugh:

Ok, 50's to early 60's perhaps. we are getting somwhere, anyway.

check out the grain on the wood.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ncuban.jpg

[blango]

inside with a bit of water on it.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ry_015.jpg

[blango]

looks like stainless steel was invented in europe in 1918. who knows when they were using stainless in Cuba. not much help.

T

[taikonoatama]

You haven't mentioned the thickness of the wood. This last pic seems to show it being quite thin at the bottom. Is this true for the whole shell? About half the thickness of any modern conga? That's another excellent indicator that it could be from the 50's to early 60's.

~Taiko