New gon bops vs. Old

[pcastag]

OK, So I've got two California series, 11.5 and 9.75 and I just bought and somewhat repaired an old oak Gon Bop. Put a muleskin on it and glued two cracks back together. Refinishing will have to wait until this summer vacation begins. The sound is somewhat similar, however the original gon bop is much lighter in weight, and does not have the resonance of the newer models. all in all I would have to say the older drums have a drier sound while the new tubs have a livelier more modern sound.
PC

[Tonio]

Well thanks for bringing that up pcstag. I am considering the new Gon Bops.
What kinda of glue did you use? Were you able to get the glue into to the split? or crack in the wood itself? One thing about oak is that it shrinks over time, and get dry and brittle.
But being livelier should be a good thing
From experience, when the ol' Gon Bops split or crack, they never regain the full resonance they once had. But old Gon Bops was kinda dry to begin with once the head(original) is broken in. The sustain was diminished which in some cases was cool, some genres it didn't cut it. What I liked most about the old GB's was that the open tone was dry yet full bodied even when cranked, with the nice pop of the slaps. I mean it really pops, instead of the high transient crack.
Looking at picture at BP site the CA models do not apper to have the belly shape as the old ones. The Alex Acuna model deoes seem to be a closer replica.
What do you think based on your situation? are they similar belly shape? BTW how are the brackets back plates on the inside? Are they actually plates , or they still going for the oversized washer type deal? do they bolt on in between staves, or are they consciensely fitted to avoid that and get just the meat of the staves? That is one thing I hated about the old Gon Bops, a few brackets can apparently get bolted right in between the staves, sometimes one bracket can be right smack in the middle from both sides of the bracket -maybe it has to do with size of teh bracket, or could it be hapazard design?

T



Edited By Tonio on 1181422835

[pcastag]

The bellies are a bit different, the belly on the California series is a bit higher than on the older models. In addition, the construction on the new tubs is far superior. There is a backing plate on the bottom two lugs, and just a thick washer on the upper two, however the plates are bolted on with some fairly thick bolts, not screws like on the earlier models. I looked and didn't see any bolts going between two staves, that's actually what caused one of the cracks on the old tub. As far as glue I used gorilla glue and was able to get it into the crack. they didn't run the length of the entire drum, but they were pretty well open. I strapped them up with some luggage rack straps, the kind with winches and were able to get them pretty wll closed. It definitely does have that sound though. nice open tones even when chranked, and the closed slaps are nice and dry, no ringing. One other thing about the new Gon Bops, at least the California series, the staves are scored right at the belly on the inside, similar to the old valjes.
PC
PC

[Tonio]

Ah.. good info pc. Its kerfed on the inside?, just like valje's. That means he's pnuematically bending the staves- no steam. Sounds good- his method was always better than old GB. Thats where old GB's biggest problem was. Its a beatch bending the oak to keep in shape for years without bands to hold them together. The stave cut angle and glue used seems to be a big factor.
Good to hear about the bak plates and bigger bolts !!
So the belly is higher!! hmmm....

When you refinish the old ones careful when you sand it after removing the poly coating. Thats when its the most vulnerable for the staves to crack. do not use a machine (pulse type) sander. Hand work sanding is alot safer. Not sure about gorilla glue, but I have used marine epoxy to lighty coat the stave joint area to strengthen the iside. If you put too thich of a application it can crack or give you more ping (ringing).

PC, thanks for sharing about the New Gen Gon Bops vs the old.

Oh another thng about the old GB's is that the skin rides the shell close - maybe a damping effect there? The new ones look like they are new school- far from the shell.

T

[Whopbamboom]

Too much glue on the inside can contribute to ringing? Maybe that's one of the contributing factors in the ringing that is sometimes heard with LP's?

[bongo]

One other thing about the new Gon Bops, at least the California series, the staves are scored right at the belly on the inside, similar to the old valjes.
PC
PC

This scoring on the inside of the staves is an interesting observation and one I had wondered about. It does not surprize me since Akbar learned his trade at Valje and his Sol drums also had this trait.

Funny, when I talked with Tom from Volcano Percussion, he put down this technique as not being very good wood craftmanship. He prefers to steam bend the staves, which is what the the old Gon Bops did. He said the scoring was why the Valje had that sharp bend to the shell instead of a smooth curve, and that it effects the sound. Tom also uses joints/pegs to reinforce the staves, which he says is from his furniture wood craftman background. He mentioned the sloppy glue Gon Bop used to always have on the inside, thought it a shame and poor craftmanship.

Akbar must have figured out how to get the gradual Gon Bop shell curve while using the scored stave technique.

I have played Akbars Sol drums, and found them to be nice sounding, hollow open tones, crisp slaps, more of a Gon Bop sound than LP ring. I'd imagine the californis series Gon bops would have the same thing going on. They use good steer hide and i wouldn't think you'd need to replace the skins ... that seems such a waste on a new drum, and too much trouble.

[Tonio]

Too much glue on the inside can contribute to ringing? Maybe that's one of the contributing factors in the ringing that is sometimes heard with LP's?

Based on a few drums a friend of mine, possibly. He had a few Valje congas he was repairing and some had more marine epoxy on the inside and it had more ringing to it. But mind you it was slathered across the whole inside -mid belly.
T

[bongo]

I got a chance to play a set of new DW California series Gon Bops on display at African Rhythm Traders in Portland last weekend.

The red oak shells were finished in a brown stain, no bands, and the hardware was very nice chrome comfort style rims. These drums were heavy in weight, and as mentioned the interior had the cuts in the slats. Overall they are handsome drums.

The skins were yellowish brown cow hide, kind of splotchy pigmented, rather like some lower quality Pakistan hides I have seen.

The drums sounded fine, not to die for but good enough. I would have liked to play with the tuning, but did not. My impression is the sound was not overly crisp and dry like the best vintage Gon Bops, but it was definately not ringy either. My observations on the sound is tempered knowing that even vintage Gon Bops, when new or otherwise, did not always have the best sound .... some skins/drums are just better than others.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

[pcastag]

I think good skins would definitely make a big difference, I'm going to change out the quinto right away. The skins are apparanly from Peru, I think top quality cow or mule would make a huge difference in the sound.
PC

[Tonio]

wow $700~800 and they use cheap imported skin?

BTW, the cutting on the inside shell is called kerfing.

Thanks for your report bongo. And I agree new drums normally do not sound incredible, after some breaking in it starts to sound great. The vintage Gon Bops changed drastically over time. They became dry with less sustain in the open tones. Which is what I liked about them. I think it has to do with the double bleached skins in combination of of mounting angle and shell shape.

Some drums just sound good from the beginning (new), and even though it might not be great, you can tell it will as soon as its broken in.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1184086064

[pcastag]

I paid 850 for the two , got a deal from a buddy of mine who works at guitar center. They are not the best skins I've seen, but I'll tell you this much, they are a hell of a lot better than any water buffalo skin!
PC

[bongo]

wow $700~800 and they use cheap imported skin?

BTW, the cutting on the inside shell is called kerfing.

Thanks for your report bongo. And I agree new drums normally do not sound incredible, after some breaking in it starts to sound great. The vintage Gon Bops changed drastically over time. They became dry with less sustain in the open tones. Which is what I liked about them. I think it has to do with the double bleached skins in combination of of mounting angle and shell shape.

Some drums just sound good from the beginning (new), and even though it might not be great, you can tell it will as soon as its broken in.

T

Those Gon Bop double bleached heads do sound good, which are what I'm playing on mostly now.

My older mid 70's Gon Bops came with more natural colored heads, not much bleach if any, but high quality cow or steer, and they sounded great. The one on my old tumba is 30 years old and stuill sounds good. Funny, these heads had 'character', a bit of a color pattern on the tumba, and the quinto had three slightly raised lines, like maybe scars from a claw. That quinto head was just killer.

The finish on the Gon Bop skin was like natural skin surface, not split, so had a tackiness that allowed good vibration for a finger slide, not slick like those thin water buffalo hides. I think the Gon bop sound was influenced too by the skin being a bit thicker than is common today.

My Skin on Skin have good darker brown medium weight bull skin ... Jay specifically called it 'bull skin', not cow. Those heads sound great too, but do not have as tacky of a surface so are harder to get the slide sound, but you still can, I think they are natural surface too.

So just rambling .....