Cuban influence in early R&R and R&B - tresillo, clave and guajeo's impact
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by davidpenalosa » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:51 pm
Hi everyone,
This is an offshoot from the thread “Zaragemca's breif on Jazz Music”. My last post there concerned the Cuban influence in early jazz. Onto the Cuban influence in early rock and roll....
Congamyk:
“Did Cubans invent rock and roll too?”
me:
Of course rock and roll is a North American creation, but Cuban music did have some impact. Up until the US embargo against Cuba (1961), Cuban popular music influenced North American music and vice versa. Because of the embargo though, a lot of the early Cuban-American exchanges have been forgotten, or consciously denied for political reasons.
R&B icon Johnny Otis began experimenting with the mixing of Cuban music and R&B in the 1940’s. In 1945 on Armed Forces Radio, he used Miguelito Valdes’ percussionists in his band. His 1958 classic “Willie and the Handjive” was based on a son clave motif. That figure, commonly known today as the “Bo-Diddley beat”, is a motif recognized by anyone familiar with rock and roll.
The clave was also a common motif for soul/funk artists like James Brown.
Early R&R pioneer Dave Bartholomew adapted a Cuban tresillo-based tumbao for his song “County Boy” (1949). The line was played by saxes instead of bass. Bartholomew identified the exact Cuban tune he lifted that line from. Fats Domino also used the tresillo figure in “Blueberry Hill” (1956). The saxes play the 4/4 tresillo pattern while the drums play in swing feel (double-time triplets).
Richard Berry’s R&R classic “Louie Louie” (1955) was an adaptation of the Cuban hit “El loco cha-cha-cha”. That common Cuban chord progression became a staple of early R&R: “Hang on Sloopie”, “Wild Thing”, etc ..
The cha-cha-cha craze was happening at the same time R&R was taking off, so it’s not surprising that artists like Sam Cooke did “R&R chachas” ("Everyone Likes To Cha Cha Cha" – 1959). There are countless tunes from this era like “Under the Boardwalk” that have a discernable Cuban influence.
The Cuban guajeo provided inspiration for many rhythmically two-sided (as opposed to tresillo-based) guitar riffs in songs such as the Beatles “I Feel Fine” and “Day Tripper”.
By the mid-sixties however, motifs originally borrowed from Cuban music were such a common staple of North American pop music, that their use was undoubtedly propagated by earlier pop songs, rather than Cuban sources. For example, Led Zeppelin’s 2-3 “Whole Lotta Love” (1969) riff most likely drew from older Cuban-influenced rock, instead of any direct Cuban inspiration.
Mike, I hear what you are saying about acculturation. It’s ironic, because most of the time I find myself on the other side of the argument, challenging people who make wishy-washy or sweeping assertions about the influence of Cuban music, or other cross-cultural connections. In this case though, I am identifying specific Cuban influences found in North American musics.
-David
Edited By davidpenalosa on 1182290758
This is an offshoot from the thread “Zaragemca's breif on Jazz Music”. My last post there concerned the Cuban influence in early jazz. Onto the Cuban influence in early rock and roll....
Congamyk:
“Did Cubans invent rock and roll too?”
me:
Of course rock and roll is a North American creation, but Cuban music did have some impact. Up until the US embargo against Cuba (1961), Cuban popular music influenced North American music and vice versa. Because of the embargo though, a lot of the early Cuban-American exchanges have been forgotten, or consciously denied for political reasons.
R&B icon Johnny Otis began experimenting with the mixing of Cuban music and R&B in the 1940’s. In 1945 on Armed Forces Radio, he used Miguelito Valdes’ percussionists in his band. His 1958 classic “Willie and the Handjive” was based on a son clave motif. That figure, commonly known today as the “Bo-Diddley beat”, is a motif recognized by anyone familiar with rock and roll.
The clave was also a common motif for soul/funk artists like James Brown.
Early R&R pioneer Dave Bartholomew adapted a Cuban tresillo-based tumbao for his song “County Boy” (1949). The line was played by saxes instead of bass. Bartholomew identified the exact Cuban tune he lifted that line from. Fats Domino also used the tresillo figure in “Blueberry Hill” (1956). The saxes play the 4/4 tresillo pattern while the drums play in swing feel (double-time triplets).
Richard Berry’s R&R classic “Louie Louie” (1955) was an adaptation of the Cuban hit “El loco cha-cha-cha”. That common Cuban chord progression became a staple of early R&R: “Hang on Sloopie”, “Wild Thing”, etc ..
The cha-cha-cha craze was happening at the same time R&R was taking off, so it’s not surprising that artists like Sam Cooke did “R&R chachas” ("Everyone Likes To Cha Cha Cha" – 1959). There are countless tunes from this era like “Under the Boardwalk” that have a discernable Cuban influence.
The Cuban guajeo provided inspiration for many rhythmically two-sided (as opposed to tresillo-based) guitar riffs in songs such as the Beatles “I Feel Fine” and “Day Tripper”.
By the mid-sixties however, motifs originally borrowed from Cuban music were such a common staple of North American pop music, that their use was undoubtedly propagated by earlier pop songs, rather than Cuban sources. For example, Led Zeppelin’s 2-3 “Whole Lotta Love” (1969) riff most likely drew from older Cuban-influenced rock, instead of any direct Cuban inspiration.
Mike, I hear what you are saying about acculturation. It’s ironic, because most of the time I find myself on the other side of the argument, challenging people who make wishy-washy or sweeping assertions about the influence of Cuban music, or other cross-cultural connections. In this case though, I am identifying specific Cuban influences found in North American musics.
-David
Edited By davidpenalosa on 1182290758
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by Quinto Governor II » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:55 am
Hey davidpenalosa,
David
Mike, I hear what you are saying about acculturation. It’s ironic, because most of the time I find myself on the other side of the argument, challenging people who make wishy-washy or sweeping assertions about the influence of Cuban music, or other cross-cultural connections. In this case though, I am identifying specific Cuban influences found in North American musics.
-David
me
This is a quote from Luis Tamargo, who you probably know of. He writes for Latin Beat magazine and has written liner notes for many cds. Have you read any of his writings. If so, what do you think? This quote is from the United Rhythms for Messidor cd (1995).
"In fact, Latin music has infiltrated every North American genre. Funk and Rhythm & Blues would not exist without their Cuban - derived bass patterns, and country music continues to show the Mexican influence. Today's popular music would not exist without its Latin constituents."
David
Mike, I hear what you are saying about acculturation. It’s ironic, because most of the time I find myself on the other side of the argument, challenging people who make wishy-washy or sweeping assertions about the influence of Cuban music, or other cross-cultural connections. In this case though, I am identifying specific Cuban influences found in North American musics.
-David
me
This is a quote from Luis Tamargo, who you probably know of. He writes for Latin Beat magazine and has written liner notes for many cds. Have you read any of his writings. If so, what do you think? This quote is from the United Rhythms for Messidor cd (1995).
"In fact, Latin music has infiltrated every North American genre. Funk and Rhythm & Blues would not exist without their Cuban - derived bass patterns, and country music continues to show the Mexican influence. Today's popular music would not exist without its Latin constituents."
Yambu
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by davidpenalosa » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:05 am
I think it’s a bit over the top for Luis Tamargo to say that “Today's popular music would not exist without its Latin constituents." I could go with - Today's popular music would sound very different without its Latin constituents.
I could also say that Mexican popular music would sound very different without its North American constituents and Cuban popular music would sound very different without its North American constituents.
It’s only natural that Mexican music and country music have exchanged ideas, as they have some similar rural roots. By the same token, Afro-Cuban and African-American musics also share some common heritage and have had participated in a fruitful exchange for decades.
He’s addressing music with Spanish lyrics, whereas my interest is in the transfer of African-based rhythmic elements. Like Tamargo, author John Strom Roberts has documented a lot of fascinating historical events, but does not differentiate between the Afro-Cuban “conduit” through which African-American music has steadily been “re-Africanized”, and the influence of Spanish language music in general.
It’s worth noting that the history of African-American music is specifically different from the history of Afro-Cuban music because hand drums were virtually non-existent in North America, whereas Cuba has the largest repertoire of African-based rhythms and types of African-based instruments outside of Africa itself.
African-American music has continually borrowed African-type instruments and African-based rhythmic elements from Afro-Cuban music. On the other side, nearly every innovation in Cuban popular music since the mid-20th Century has involved the modernization of harmony (mainly through the influence of African-American jazz) and rhythmic elements drawn from the deep well of Afro-Cuban folklore (mostly rumba).
-David
I could also say that Mexican popular music would sound very different without its North American constituents and Cuban popular music would sound very different without its North American constituents.
It’s only natural that Mexican music and country music have exchanged ideas, as they have some similar rural roots. By the same token, Afro-Cuban and African-American musics also share some common heritage and have had participated in a fruitful exchange for decades.
He’s addressing music with Spanish lyrics, whereas my interest is in the transfer of African-based rhythmic elements. Like Tamargo, author John Strom Roberts has documented a lot of fascinating historical events, but does not differentiate between the Afro-Cuban “conduit” through which African-American music has steadily been “re-Africanized”, and the influence of Spanish language music in general.
It’s worth noting that the history of African-American music is specifically different from the history of Afro-Cuban music because hand drums were virtually non-existent in North America, whereas Cuba has the largest repertoire of African-based rhythms and types of African-based instruments outside of Africa itself.
African-American music has continually borrowed African-type instruments and African-based rhythmic elements from Afro-Cuban music. On the other side, nearly every innovation in Cuban popular music since the mid-20th Century has involved the modernization of harmony (mainly through the influence of African-American jazz) and rhythmic elements drawn from the deep well of Afro-Cuban folklore (mostly rumba).
-David
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by davidpenalosa » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:28 am
I have a better idea for a thread, Kansas City as the Center of the Universe. 
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by Derbeno » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:51 am
",....... whereas Cuba has the largest repertoire of African-based rhythms and types of African-based instruments outside of Africa itself. "
Wow! sweeping and powerful statement......
, what about the rest of the Caribbean basin including the central and south America coastal region and not forgetting the Guyana's, Surinam and Brazil?
Just because it is not as promininent does not mean that the African diaspora's heart beat is not deep rooted and immense.
Rhythms from 100's from years ago have been discovered by scholars that were virtually lost in Africa but still alive and well in it's original form.
Interesting debate nevertheless
btw I grew up in Curacao
Wow! sweeping and powerful statement......
, what about the rest of the Caribbean basin including the central and south America coastal region and not forgetting the Guyana's, Surinam and Brazil?Just because it is not as promininent does not mean that the African diaspora's heart beat is not deep rooted and immense.
Rhythms from 100's from years ago have been discovered by scholars that were virtually lost in Africa but still alive and well in it's original form.
Interesting debate nevertheless
btw I grew up in Curacao
Echale candela, p'afinar los cueros
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by davidpenalosa » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:27 am
>",....... whereas Cuba has the largest repertoire of African-based rhythms and types of African-based instruments outside of Africa itself. "
Derbeno:
>“Wow! sweeping and powerful statement...... , what about the rest of the Caribbean basin including the central and south America coastal region and not forgetting the Guyana's, Surinam and Brazil?”
Hi Derbeno,
I’m delighted to have your thoughtful critique of my post.
Yes, I believe that Cuba of all the countries, has the greatest variety in the New World, including rest of the Caribbean and the central and south America coastal region. It’s not hard to imagine why. Cuba is the largest island and had the largest slave market in the Caribbean. This does not however, take anything away from the music of those other countries you mentioned.
Derbeno:
>”Just because it is not as promininent does not mean that the African diaspora's heart beat is not deep rooted and immense.”
me:
I did not mean to imply any disrespect or lessen the soulfulness (not that I ever could) of any other type of African Diaspora music. Each has its own unique beauty. I do however, think it’s fair to speak of the importance of Cuban music and instruments, because of their impact on other Diaspora music and in Africa itself. I find it a fascinating subject.
Derbeno:
>”Rhythms from 100's from years ago have been discovered by scholars that were virtually lost in Africa but still alive and well in it's original form.”
Me:
I am very skeptical of this statement. First of all, we really have very little idea of what music sounded like in Africa 100 years ago. What few accounts we have, are from Euro-centric colonists and missionaries. There are very few rhythms in the New World that directly correspond to rhythms in present-day Africa. There’s been considerable change in the music of both Africa and the African Diaspora over the past 150+ years. Do you have any specific examples you can share?
Derbeno:
>”Interesting debate nevertheless
btw I grew up in Curacao”
me:
Glad you joined in. What is the music in Curacao like and what are the common instruments?
-David
Edited By davidpenalosa on 1182995796
Derbeno:
>“Wow! sweeping and powerful statement...... , what about the rest of the Caribbean basin including the central and south America coastal region and not forgetting the Guyana's, Surinam and Brazil?”
Hi Derbeno,
I’m delighted to have your thoughtful critique of my post.
Yes, I believe that Cuba of all the countries, has the greatest variety in the New World, including rest of the Caribbean and the central and south America coastal region. It’s not hard to imagine why. Cuba is the largest island and had the largest slave market in the Caribbean. This does not however, take anything away from the music of those other countries you mentioned.
Derbeno:
>”Just because it is not as promininent does not mean that the African diaspora's heart beat is not deep rooted and immense.”
me:
I did not mean to imply any disrespect or lessen the soulfulness (not that I ever could) of any other type of African Diaspora music. Each has its own unique beauty. I do however, think it’s fair to speak of the importance of Cuban music and instruments, because of their impact on other Diaspora music and in Africa itself. I find it a fascinating subject.
Derbeno:
>”Rhythms from 100's from years ago have been discovered by scholars that were virtually lost in Africa but still alive and well in it's original form.”
Me:
I am very skeptical of this statement. First of all, we really have very little idea of what music sounded like in Africa 100 years ago. What few accounts we have, are from Euro-centric colonists and missionaries. There are very few rhythms in the New World that directly correspond to rhythms in present-day Africa. There’s been considerable change in the music of both Africa and the African Diaspora over the past 150+ years. Do you have any specific examples you can share?
Derbeno:
>”Interesting debate nevertheless
btw I grew up in Curacao”
me:
Glad you joined in. What is the music in Curacao like and what are the common instruments?
-David
Edited By davidpenalosa on 1182995796
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by congamyk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:24 pm
davidpenalosa wrote:I have a better idea for a thread, Kansas City as the Center of the Universe.
It's in the center of the US, which is easily the most musically prolific country in the world.
But I haven't started a thread about it, you are the one obsessed.
If you're going to start shady threads without merit you should have the sensibilities to take feedback and criticism.
Cuba brought nothing to the jazz table in until 4 or 5 decades after jazz was thriving.
And Cuban "Influence" on rock music is a comedy.
Cuban music stands on it's own and doesn't need misinformed innuendo or re-writing of history for me to appreciate it.
I love Cuban music and try to incorporate it's elements and concepts in all of my music.
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by congamyk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:37 pm
davidpenalosa wrote:..... I am very skeptical of this statement. First of all, we really have very little idea of what music sounded like in Africa 100 years ago. What few accounts we have, are from Euro-centric colonists and missionaries. There are very few rhythms in the New World that directly correspond to rhythms in present-day Africa. There’s been considerable change in the music of both Africa and the African Diaspora over the past 150+ years. Do you have any specific examples you can share? ....
"Euro-centric colonists and missionaries"
They are Euro-centric because that's where they were from and they had a written language (unlike Africans), so they are going to write things from thier perspective.
Considerable change?
Of course there has been change. The simplistic African music brought over by the slaves is not what you are hearing in rumba and many other folkloric forms today. There are elements and basic concepts from Africa, but the rumba and other "folkloric traditions" you hear today are saturated with European influence. And the music has become better for it.
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by congamyk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:43 pm
davidpenalosa wrote:..... Yes, I believe that Cuba of all the countries, has the greatest variety in the New World, including rest of the Caribbean and the central and south America coastal region. It’s not hard to imagine why. Cuba is the largest island and had the largest slave market in the Caribbean. This does not however, take anything away from the music of those other countries you mentioned....
Cuba is the largest island in the Carribean but that wasn't his topic?
His point was about Central and South America and Brazil.
Brazil is much, much closer to Africa and had 100X more slaves brought to it's shores than Cuba did.
Secondly there are regions in Brazil that have more African descendants than all of Cuba combined.
You seem to have a pro-Cuba obsession.
I love Cuban rhythms so no disrespect but Brazil clearly has more African-based musical forms than Cuba.
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by davidpenalosa » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:37 pm
Congamyk: “Hard to believe but this is even goofier than the jazz thread. Next thread idea for you.... Cuba's influence on the origin of brain surgery.”
Me:
Is that your idea of “feedback and criticism”? Perhaps you missed the irony that I responded with the same sarcastic stance that you initiated?
Congamyk:“Cuba brought nothing to the jazz table in until 4 or 5 decades after jazz was thriving.”
Me:
So, you are ignoring all my posts, with musician names, song titles and dates? You seem unable to counter any points I make, you just keep repeating this, like that will somehow make it true.
Congamyk:
„And Cuban "Influence" on rock music is a comedy”
Me:
This must be some of that “feedback and criticism” you mentioned. Your mastery of the facts is stunning!
Congamyk:
>"Euro-centric colonists and missionaries"
“They are Euro-centric because that's where they were from and they had a written language (unlike Africans), so they are going to write things from thier perspective.”
Me:
Glad you wrote again, but this time, with something of substance I can respond to. I agree. What I meant to convey is that the early European chroniclers did not have the understanding of African music that enabled them to fully describe what they saw. They also looked down upon the music (racism), which they did not understand. In fact, just to expand on this point, up until relatively recently, Ethnomusicologists have had a lot of misunderstandings regarding African rhythm.
Congamyk:
„Of course there has been change. The simplistic African music brought over by the slaves is not what you are hearing in rumba and many other folkloric forms today. There are elements and basic concepts from Africa, but the rumba and other "folkloric traditions" you hear today are saturated with European influence. And the music has become better for it.”
Me:
So, you agree with me about change. Great. I love many Afro-Euro hybrids: rumba, son, blues, jazz, R&B, samba, etc (the list is too long). “Simplistic African music” though? Have you studied any African music? Some of it is as complex as any other music you can find on the planet. Let’s give each music their proper due.
Congamyk:
“Brazil clearly has more African-based musical forms than Cuba.”
Me:
OK. Why don’t you back this up? I’ve written pages in this thread filled with info. Please list your Brazilian African-based musical forms. Brazil is a big country. I’m willing to be convinced and will concede your point in this forum if convinced.
-David
Me:
Is that your idea of “feedback and criticism”? Perhaps you missed the irony that I responded with the same sarcastic stance that you initiated?
Congamyk:“Cuba brought nothing to the jazz table in until 4 or 5 decades after jazz was thriving.”
Me:
So, you are ignoring all my posts, with musician names, song titles and dates? You seem unable to counter any points I make, you just keep repeating this, like that will somehow make it true.
Congamyk:
„And Cuban "Influence" on rock music is a comedy”
Me:
This must be some of that “feedback and criticism” you mentioned. Your mastery of the facts is stunning!
Congamyk:
>"Euro-centric colonists and missionaries"
“They are Euro-centric because that's where they were from and they had a written language (unlike Africans), so they are going to write things from thier perspective.”
Me:
Glad you wrote again, but this time, with something of substance I can respond to. I agree. What I meant to convey is that the early European chroniclers did not have the understanding of African music that enabled them to fully describe what they saw. They also looked down upon the music (racism), which they did not understand. In fact, just to expand on this point, up until relatively recently, Ethnomusicologists have had a lot of misunderstandings regarding African rhythm.
Congamyk:
„Of course there has been change. The simplistic African music brought over by the slaves is not what you are hearing in rumba and many other folkloric forms today. There are elements and basic concepts from Africa, but the rumba and other "folkloric traditions" you hear today are saturated with European influence. And the music has become better for it.”
Me:
So, you agree with me about change. Great. I love many Afro-Euro hybrids: rumba, son, blues, jazz, R&B, samba, etc (the list is too long). “Simplistic African music” though? Have you studied any African music? Some of it is as complex as any other music you can find on the planet. Let’s give each music their proper due.
Congamyk:
“Brazil clearly has more African-based musical forms than Cuba.”
Me:
OK. Why don’t you back this up? I’ve written pages in this thread filled with info. Please list your Brazilian African-based musical forms. Brazil is a big country. I’m willing to be convinced and will concede your point in this forum if convinced.
-David
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by zaragenca » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:01 pm
.Welcome David,again in this subjects there are always details which is why people could n't see the link...British people have been a sustained immigration to Cuba since the mid to late 1800's,,and they have business in Cuba.The cuban music have been sold in Europe since 1930's also bands which were doing good in the 30's were touring Europe,Don Azpiazu's Orquestras,...Syboney ,(of Alfredo Brito), the Lecuonas Cuban Boys,,etc...So even before Led Zeppelin, you could see in the Beatles the songs...Yesterday,(have strong Bolero influence)), Oblady Oblada,(is a Reggae),etc.Dr. Zaragemca,
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by congamyk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:46 pm
davidpenalosa wrote:So, you agree with me about change. Great. I love many Afro-Euro hybrids: rumba, son, blues, jazz, R&B, samba, etc (the list is too long). “Simplistic African music” though? Have you studied any African music? Some of it is as complex as any other music you can find on the planet. Let’s give each music their proper due.
Blues, jazz, & R&B are not "Afro-Euro hybrids".
Blues, jazz, & R&B are uniquely American; from the United States of America exclusively. If any prior influence was to be subscribed, it would be 90% European. (played on European instruments, sang in European language, using European melody and chord system of music, etc) But that doesn't matter much to me if you disagree.
.... "complex African music"...
I assume you are speaking of African music south of the Sahara and from the west coast of Africa - you should make that distinction. There are dozens upon doszens of complex northern Africa rhythms (Arabic and middle-eastern in influence) that would not apply to this conversation.
the "complex" music you refer to is no more than rhythm, Africans south of the equator did not have a melodic or chordal concept, though they did sing/chant. This music really was very crude by normal standards compared to other music systems in place around the rest of world at the time of the slave trade and diaspora discussed here. Sub-Saharan African music was not complex and it's disingenuous of you to claim it's immediate critics were "racists". They simply had not developed an ear for the rhythms they were hearing and since sub-Saharan Africans had no written standardized music system it was easy to see how the music could have immediately deemed as crude. Even today music is an "acquired taste" and sounds/rhythms/harmonies, etc still take awhile to grow on people.
Sub-Saharan African rhythms were unique, but no more complex than what was being played on dobro and bodrhan in Europe, darbuka, table or taiko around the rest of the world. The concept of rhythm in 3 and 6 had been around (and written extensively) in Europe and elsewhere centuries before the dispora.
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by congamyk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:01 pm
zaragenca wrote:.Welcome David,again in this subjects there are always details which is why people could n't see the link...British people have been a sustained immigration to Cuba since the mid to late 1800's,,and they have business in Cuba.The cuban music have been sold in Europe since 1930's also bands which were doing good in the 30's were touring Europe,Don Azpiazu's Orquestras,...Syboney ,(of Alfredo Brito), the Lecuonas Cuban Boys,,etc...So even before Led Zeppelin, you could see in the Beatles the songs...Yesterday,(have strong Bolero influence)), Oblady Oblada,(is a Reggae),etc.Dr. Zaragemca,
This is the same illogic used to start this thread.....
evidences:
1. Some British people migrated to Cuba and even had businesses there
2. Some Cuban music was sold in Europe since 1930
3. A few Cuban bands toured Europe in 1930
4 The Beatles sang Yesterday
(which could be mistaken for a bolero - ever heard of a ballad before?)
5. The Beatles sang "Oblady Oblada" ("a reggae"?)
CONCLUSION: Cuba influenced the origins of Rock & Roll :D
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by zumbi » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:36 pm
peace&bless!
dear gongamyk, while you accuse most people on this board to be obsessed with cuba and overemphasizing its contribution to major musical styles of the previous century, you seem to be obsessed with the centrality of the united states as you claim it originated more musical styles than anybody else.
i simply disagree: u.s. of a. happen to have popularized recording media (and broadcasting systems of all kinds) and therefore its own musical production is way over-rappresented. in noway music is as widespread and essential in north american society (except for the african-american and latino communities) as it is in west africa and other places of the african diaspora.
if american music is on the map is because of the contribution of captive africans that your fellow man sold and bought, whiped then lynched and still despise to this day except when some money can be made out of them.
listen to ali farka toure and you will hear that something very similiar to what you call delta blues has been played in northern mali for centuries and you can find many other example in most other styles that you claim to be "purely" american.
usa mostly contributed blood and oppression to the world with the music of the enslaved africans being one of the few positive side effects...
as brother malcolm x used to say: "land of the thief home of the slave"
burn babylon, burn!
one love.
dear gongamyk, while you accuse most people on this board to be obsessed with cuba and overemphasizing its contribution to major musical styles of the previous century, you seem to be obsessed with the centrality of the united states as you claim it originated more musical styles than anybody else.
i simply disagree: u.s. of a. happen to have popularized recording media (and broadcasting systems of all kinds) and therefore its own musical production is way over-rappresented. in noway music is as widespread and essential in north american society (except for the african-american and latino communities) as it is in west africa and other places of the african diaspora.
if american music is on the map is because of the contribution of captive africans that your fellow man sold and bought, whiped then lynched and still despise to this day except when some money can be made out of them.
listen to ali farka toure and you will hear that something very similiar to what you call delta blues has been played in northern mali for centuries and you can find many other example in most other styles that you claim to be "purely" american.
usa mostly contributed blood and oppression to the world with the music of the enslaved africans being one of the few positive side effects...
as brother malcolm x used to say: "land of the thief home of the slave"
burn babylon, burn!
one love.
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zumbi - Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:08 pm
- Location: planet heart
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