PLAYING FOR THE DOOR...

[Whopbamboom]

Dr. Z-- established bands will always have more clout to make things more profitable for them...

But, every established band once started out with no clout at all, and felt lucky to get the chance to play. And chances are, at that early stage in their career, they did whatever they were told, because they realized that they would not be able to play at all if they declined. And if they did that, then how would they gain a following at all in order to become an established band with clout at a later date?

There will always be newcomers to the scene... maybe not always "new" newcomers, perhaps these might include folks who have been doing music for years and years and years but are now trying to go professional (i.e., play music for a living). And they will do whatever it takes to make the transition from working stiff to gigging stiff. If that means that they do things the club's way for a while, then I think that would be understandable.

If there was a musician's union that actually functioned, things could be different. But there's not, and there never will be that I can tell. Everybody is independent.



Edited By Whopbamboom on 1184269114

[109-1176549166]

In L.A., the clubs always seem to have the upper hand from what I can tell. It's even pay-to-play in a lot of clubs.... and if you don't like it, there's supposedly 10 other bands ready to pay to be able to play...

Being also an economist, I'd like to share that the simple but cold reality is that usually, all things being equal (e.g., quality of the competing bands' talent), it's all about "supply & demand" economics, much like the housing market. In other words, from your band's point of view and depending on where your band is based, you could either be a in a "buyer's market" (more bands than clubs) or in a "seller's market" (more clubs than bands).

If your band is in a "buyer's market" situation, then you might have to seriously think about scouting other areas outside your base.

It's been said that most business success can be attributed to 80% marketing and "just' 20% talent. I'm not at all demeaning talent here. What I'm trying to say is that most of the time, unless you're extremely lucky (being at the right place and at the right time, like Elvis and the Beatles), you can't fall back on your talent alone.

So, the great lesson is: Persistence! Never give up trying to promote your band. But, also, do your very best to make sure that your band is not shortchanged.

But sometimes, hopefully rarely, you do have to "play for a song", just to get in, especially if you're not yet well-known. Think of Mrs. Fields Cookies freebie samples. But, be smart and just don't let your intended hirer abuse your goodwill.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1184272583

[109-1176549166]

So the alternative is to be an "Internet Star"??????..give me a break.....I don't care if times have changed but there is a right way and a wrong way to achieve what u want ....

JC,

With all due respect, I don't think that Whopbamboom(BTW, I luv this apparently Little Richard-inspired nickname) meant that we should just settle being an Internet star. I believe that he meant utilizing the Internet to be another marketing tool to promote one's band.

As we all know, the Internet has become an extremely powerful and effective tool of mass-communication. And as we all have been witnessing lately, many bands have taken advantage of the Internet to expose and promote themselves. And rightly so.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1184273607

[Whopbamboom]

Yes, I was referring to the use of the internet for promotional and marketing purposes, as an alternative to playing in clubs for the purpose of promotion and marketing. Or, use the internet in conjunction with playing live. You never know where your break is going to come from.
But honestly, who even knows if playing clubs is a great way to get "discovered" anymore. Are people even hoping for a big record contract still? Aren't more folks just distributing their own vanity presses via the internet now?
Maybe the internet competition as a medium for promotion will force the clubs to tip their hand this time, who knows.

I should mention that I do not think the internet has been good for music in every way, but there are some good things it can help with.

[109-1176549166]

But honestly, who even knows if playing clubs is a great way to get "discovered" anymore. Are people even hoping for a big record contract still? Aren't more folks just distributing their own vanity presses via the internet now?

I should mention that I do not think the internet has been good for music in every way, but there are some good things it can help with.

I agree, on the whole.

As a freelance musician and a booking agent myself, I personally don't rely on clubs to promote myself and/or my band(s). First of all, the pay isn't great; that is, if you get paid at all. Secondly, you're dealing with people who, most likely, are really not interested in your music but, are mainly (and understandably) looking at you as just another tool that he/she can use to try to pull in profits for his/her club or employer.

I, personally, much prefer concentrating all my marketing energies towards booking private gigs. Not only do these gigs pay much better, but also you're dealing with people who're looking forward to seeing and listening you perform. And if you're good and they like (more so, love) your music, you'll most likely to get not only their repeat business but also "word of mouth" advertising to others.

Not only is "word of mouth" advertising free, but, IMO, it is one of most effective forms of advertising. For me, at least, it has been the most effective.

Being personable, genuinely liking people and having integrity help--are even essential--as in most selling/marketing undertakings. And so is developing your network and trying your best not to "burn your bridges", if you can avoid it (without jeopardizing your integrity and principles).

Currently, I average about 4 private gigs per month. During peak seasons, I usually average more. For example, last December 2006 alone, I had a total of 18 gigs--all private!

Another effective way to way to get gigs (especially big gigs), IMO, is hiring the services of a good, experienced professional booking agent whom you can trust. Paying him/her the usual 10% to 15% commission is well worth it, if in exchange he/she is able to book gigs for your band that you normally wouldn't have been able to book anyway and, even better yet, for more money. Everybody wins--and should always win!

Re: the Internet, I agree with you, except that IMO you probably haven't given it as much credit that it deserves or potentially deserves. If achieving success through selling CDs or MP3 downloads of your songs is your bag, then it's one of the greatest inventions since "slice bread", IMO. You don't have to salivate for that mythical record deal and you can now thumb your nose up against greedy record producer.

I know of at least one band who's sold literally thousands of downloaded songs from the Internet. I'm sure that there are many more out there who've achieved varying degrees of "success".

Whether you like it or not, high tech is the "current" wave of the future (oxymoron intended) and there's just no stopping it. You can choose to ignore it all you want, but you also just might miss the train, much to your regret later.

With the Internet, the whole world, not just your "puny" little territory, potentially becomes your market or playground! To me, that's incredibly awesome! And I'm excited about its potential beyond words!



Edited By mjtuazon on 1184280889

[ABAKUA]

well depends on the venue and what your following is like.
Example, there are quite a few clubs I work at where we do door deal because we know it gets packed out. We aint stupid.
Last door deal we did with a 10 piece band I freelance with, we scored $300 each. Cash. For 2 x 45 min sets.
Before that we did a gig at same venue, shared the night with another band, we got $400 each with another 7 piece I freelance with.
Other clubs average $250-$300 each (9 and 10 piece band)
We only agree to door deals when we know it will be a good night, when there is consistent promo (not at our cost).
Now, if you agree to a door deal just for the sake of doing a gig or getting exposure without knowing anything about the venues average audience they getting every week then thats a little silly.
Having said that, I dont do many door deals, 99% of my gigs are paid and well paid. Most times upfront or on the night. Door deals are rare, but when we do them, tey pay very very well.