Mystery Drums - help

[congalero]

i posted these drums on another persons post; should have just started here. this is a set that i have been trying to i d for a while. the best i can come up with is that they are european. i know to all they will look like fiberglass, but they are thick wooden stave shells - look to be mahogony. i have a 9.75 and 10.75; could be cm. anyone with a clue please let me now as i would like to enlarge the set. a member thought they might be royce, but larry goldstein says: 'The congas in your picture were not made by our company. The only possible identifying item on the congas are the lug brackets and we do not recognize the shape. The only thing I can suggest is that you go onto one of the music chat rooms and maybe somebody out there can help you.'

Musically Yours,
Royce Customer Service

so, anyone who may have seen any of these, let me know. they certainly are well made drums. i have a pic of a person sitting next to a set, but can not seem to load that image. the two pics i have of the drums are posted below.

thanks



Edited By congalero on 1178079702

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... conga1.jpg

[congalero]

lugs and brackets



Edited By congalero on 1178079572

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... conga2.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

Those are fascinating drums.

One observation that may help.
the shape of the lug plates (?) looks very similar to
the lugs on a steel frame bicycle.

That shape is meant to distribute stress in a beneficial manner

Seeing as how they are from Europe there may be a connection?
I would guess Italian?

Just trying to help in your search.....good luck.



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1178090700

[JohnnyConga]

Could they be "Zim-Gar" fiberglass congas from Mexico???....the band around the middle and the bulit in stands is one very Cuban but they also could be Mexican-"Zim-Gars" an old brand name....actually my first congas wooden were Zim-Gars frm Mexico...."JC" Johnny Conga...

[congalero]

thanks johnny,

i am not sure about the 'zim gar' part, but they are certainly not fiber. i am a general contractor and they are for sure a thick mahogony stave drum; approx 3/4 inches thick. i also believe that the hadware is so well crafted and precise, especially the legs, that they are nothern european - i will venture german. if you look carefully at the pic you can see the grain of the wood through the dark stain. you will also see that there is a small piece of metal trim between the washer and nut on the tuning rod and where it inserts into the bracket; this is a bit of an overkill on design and attention to detail. the nut is also cosmetic with that little lip on the bottom of it. they do not have an alma.



Edited By congalero on 1178131597

[bongosnotbombs]

You know the precision of the hardware might say Northern European,
but the deocorative flourishes look Southern European.
I am a designer by profession, and thats what this drum is saying to me...

not to say parts werent sb-contracted

[JohnnyConga]

Well I dont know how old u guys are but im going with the Old brand from Mexico..called "Zim-Gars" and they look very much like fiberglass to me... old eyes....and the Mexicans have designed their own congas..I had a set made by the great Louis Zamora...the 2 wooden outside congas, the middle drum is a Gon bop quinto.....now look really close at the diamond "brass" brackets and also notice the "hooks'keys" are Closed" never meant to be replaced and the inside of the drums had been burned also...plus they had the same type of "built in legs" for playing standing up , which is a "Cuban" design..as the drums above look....."JC" Johnny Conga....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 5B1_5D.jpg

[blango]

bongosnotbombs is right on this one. So far, I have found two pics of this exact brand of drums. One was from a dutch site and the other from Norway. It looks italian in design, but the mirror finish is northern european looking.

The bolts are phillips and the sizes are metric, right Congalero? Lets get an exact measurement of the nuts and the congas in total por favor.

Aslo, if you can post closeups of the hardware on the inside of the drum, that would be cool.

The band is destinct, that may be a way to track who made it.

Ive played the drums in question, and they are heavy hardwood. Im not sure, but perhaps oak. It has a Mahogany like flecking to confuse me, but they seem too heavy to be Mahogany.

They are not Mexican in any way short of the built in stands. They are solid staved hard wood with a mirror finish. Hardware is Cuban style, again european like... even the built in stands are common in europe.

Thomas Altman in Germany would nail this one for us, for sure.

[Robertito]

They are Zim-Gar Congas (good call Johnny Conga)...it pays to listen to experience.

Here's the proof:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/msg/371450585.html

[taikonoatama]

(Robertito @ Jul. 13 2007,08:02)

They are Zim-Gar Congas (good call Johnny Conga)...it pays to listen to experience.

Here's the proof:

[url=http://atlanta.craigslist.org/msg/371450585.html

]http://atlanta.craigslist.org/msg/371450585.html[/quote][/url]
( copy of the ad in the next post )

I would say that proof is more than debatable - they're nowhere close to being the same drum. I don't know what you're seeing here:

- crown is completely different (in fact, the crown loops on the blue drum aren't even attached - they just hang over the metal rim).
- the side plates on the blue drum are very, very different - bulkier and without the design embellishments
- the center band is different
- the blue drum is fiberglass and the mystery drums in question wood

In fact, I have one just like the blue drum. See pic below. Ignore the lugs, as the pic is from when I had just mounted a head with extra-long temporary lugs to get the skin on. Tripod plates are totally different, too. Mine is fiberglass, and it has "Made in Japan" engraved on the rim. I've been told it's a "Fuji" drum, but I cannot vouch for that. It's the same as the blue drum, though, no doubt there.

~Taiko

Update: I just spoke with the guy selling the craigslist blue drum (not to buy it, just for more info) and I asked him why he thought it was a Zim Gar and he said the metal plate on the side says "Zim Gar." Interesting. And his has "Made in Japan" engraved on the rim, just like mine. This doesn't help us with congalero's drum ID, but does help me with mine. I think. Did Zim Gar have their drums made in Japan at some point? Or just the rims and/or hardware?
It's a mystery.



Edited By taikonoatama on 1184350805

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... g_rods.jpg

[taikonoatama]

They are Zim-Gar Congas (good call Johnny Conga)...it pays to listen to experience.

Here's the proof:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/msg/371450585.html

These craigslist ads only stay up for a week or so, so I'm posting the ad copy and pic here:

"Zim-Gar Conga Drum - 12" Head, 30" Tall - Fiberglass, w/Stand - $100"



Edited By taikonoatama on 1184341983

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... drumx2.jpg

[blango]

Yes, they look similar, but they are very different. Look closely.

Congalero knows about materials. Ive seen the drum myself, its staved wood. It looks like Mahogany, but is heavy and hard, like oak.

Funny thing about wood - it looks nothing like fiberglass Congalero, please post a pic on the inside.

I found some info on these - so far two pics, ill post them when i get to my other computer. Both pics came from northern Europe.

My guess is Denmark (due to the refined craftsmanship, researched concept, mirror finish, both pic i have came from Denmark, combo of good looks and highest quality materials, phillips bolts). But there is no reason they, or just the metal work couldnt be Italian.

Funny thing in the north of Europe - Salsa is REALLY BIG. and there are tons of gigs, or so i hear.

These tubs are in no way Zim-Gar. Lets not get distracted. They are not Mexican in any way, short of the built in stand.

These tubs are very well built, by someone who has studied the master drum makers of Cuba and the US. (ie the alma)

My guess is that they were made in the 80's (could be late 70's), as they have a collection of features similar to other congas made before that time.

Where is Thomas Altman when we need him! :laugh:

Hey Congalero, can you check to see if the nuts on the inside are metric?

Tony

[blango]

One other thought,

Boy, they sure look very close to the Mienl's mirror finish used in the 80's, no?

T

[blango]

Look, a Dane on congas

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... brians.jpg

[taikonoatama]

Inside shot of one of the mystery drums (reposting here from another thread - thanks Tony). It really does appear that our contractor friend congalero can tell the difference between wood and fiberglasss ... :p

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... inside.jpg