Volcano Congas from Hawaii - Any info

[salzfaas]

I have tried some of these in koa they were clear precise, warm ,with no extra harmonics that took away from the pure fundamental.
THE SOUND WAS OPEN AND YES WAS THE BEST SOUNDING CONGAI have ever heard ,never mind what they look like.
I compared them to old Gon Bops and Timba .There was no ringing, as in the timbas,which I feel is from the hardness of the Oak.My style is light and I play these drums like bougarabou, Not staight Cuban style. These drums are very responsive .I have had many drums in my 30 years of playing, whether they are Djembe,boogs or conga and some just want you to keep playing them and learning and others might be good but they do not give you that something else...... no what I mean? These drums come into the first category with out a doubt.
Tony I dont think we are talking about the same drum!I

[Tonio]

Bongos says there is a ring to them.

BNB, yes I checked out the mp3's on the site. But recorded instruments do have a lack of reality depdnding on how it was recorded and converted into 0101010101010101010's

Tony (Blango) - interesting opinion.

I am familiar with the Marine epoxy that Tom (Volcano) uses. PLus he uses automotive clear coat (uerathane). I have heard some folks say the skin on the smaller drums are lacking ( too thin?). When I emailed Tom about the difference in tone from the wood, he didn't seem to be too concerned about it.
So you may have a point here.

They sure do look purdy though. Nice shape too.

But I'm concerned about the SOUND.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1186510920

[Whopbamboom]

You California guys might want to consider making it to the NAMM show in a few months. I think Volcano will probably have a booth there as they have at past shows, with several congas to try. NAMM's not the easiest to get into, but there are ways.

[109-1176549166]

Bongos says there is a ring to them...

Tony (Blango) - interesting opinion.

I am familiar with the Marine epoxy that Tom (Volcano) uses. PLus he uses automotive clear coat (uerathane). I have heard some folks say the skin on the smaller drums are lacking ( too thin?). When I emailed Tom about the difference in tone from the wood, he didn't seem to be too concerned about it

They sure do look purdy though. Nice shape too.

But I'm concerned about the SOUND.

T

Blango & Tonio,

I'm with you both here. There's no doubt about it in my mind that Volcanoes are gorgeous-looking drums, probably the most gorgeous-looking overall! But, we inevitably have to always go back to what's the most important feature one should look for in a drum: looks or sound.

As I've opined in another thread, having both looks and sound is the ideal. But, given the choice between looks and sound, the sensible musician is expected to prefer sound.

Speaking only for myself, I feel most confident buying my drums from a drummer making drums 'cause you'd expect him/her to have just the right ear for the sound that you want to replicate--in our particular case, authentic Afro-Cuban sound. Thus, after much research, comparison and thought, I chose to go with Mario Punchard of Isla Percussion to make my drums.

The late "Junior" Tirado (R.I.P.) was much the same way as Mario is. Junior was a drummer (and a very good one at that) making drums for drummers. That's why Junior drums had the long-established reputation of being the best of the best in terms of sound. He had the ear for the authentic Afro-Cuban sound and was able to replicate it. And that's why Mario has the highest regard for Junior and his drums.

There's a common sense saying that "You can't give what you yourself don't have."

During one of our phone conversations, I asked Mario if he thinks that Isla drums sound just as good or even better than Junior's drums. He said that people are still debating this, but he was humble enough to acknowledge that if Islas don't sound as good (yet), then it's very, very close. And he's determined to achieve, even surpass, it.

With utmost respect to Tom Alexander and owners and fans of Volcano drums, I'm not so sure that Tom has this "ear". Ditto with Matthew Smith. It would be like comparing Antonio Stradivari, maker of the legendary Stradivarius violins, to other violin makers.

That Tom didn't seem too concerned about the "difference in tone from the wood" (to quote Tonio) concerns me. Not unless Tom is really trying to come up with a uniquely Hawaiian or Pacific Islander version of the conga with it's own unique sound, in which case it probably shouldn't really matter.

Everything that I've read and heard about the makers of the best handcrafted drums here in the American continent and even in Europe tells me that these makers are, in fact, most concerned (even "anal", if you will) about the specific sonic properties of certain different types woods. Hence, their choice of certain types of wood (such red oak, mahogany, cherry, ash, canoe, etc.) over other types.

IMHO, without passing judgment on both Volcano and Ritmo drums and without personally offending anyone, I strongly believe that it's in the best interest of the percussionist and his/her art to distinguish between drummers who make drums and craftsmen who make them. If you can have your drums made by someone who's both a drummer and craftsman, then you're going to be in percussion heaven.

Like in most things, e.g., women and cars, it's too easy to be emotionally swept away by gorgeous looks and overlook what really is (and should be) the most important property of drums: sound.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186560926

[Tonio]

Well said Manny. Drummer/ maker is where I want to go, and Mario really explained things that I wanted to hear. Out of the blue I asked, can you make a drum size between 10 1/4" and 11 3/4", and he said but then they won't speak properly. Then we got into why the current crop mass produced stuff sounds like poo. Then he recomended between canoe or cherry wood.

Now I need to talk w/ Michel @ Moperc about the same issues.

I have a feeling I will be going w/ Isla. I'm just not sure about the 10-1/4" quinto yet. Is it really 10-1/4"?

T

What I was trying to get from Tom was the difference of Koa & Mango have any similarities as oak vs cherry vs mahogany. i.e. warm vs loud vs cutting -not necessarily in that order



Edited By Tonio on 1186527230

[109-1176549166]

Well said Manny...

Out of the blue I asked, can you make a drum size between 10 1/4" and 11 3/4", and he said but then they won't speak properly.

Then we got into why the current crop mass produced stuff sounds like poo.

T

Tonio,

Thanks, bro, for your very kind words!

Funny that you should mention Mario saying that making off-sized drums for you will prevent the drums from speaking properly. I say this 'cause, in my very limited experience dealing with congas, there's something very eeriely simple about Mario's drums (I have a set of 3). When tuning, if you give all the tuning rods of the tumba the same amount of turns as all the tuning rods of the conga, both of them seem to always maintain the same generally desired pitch difference of a 4th note. This makes tuning the Isla conga and tumba for me a cinch.

I haven't played around as much with tuning my quinto (which I plan to primarily use for soloing or rumbas) to observe the same correlation with my conga and tumba.

Apparently, Mario's got his size and dimension formulae for all of his drums down to a "T". So, I can believe what he told you that changing his already established formulae for his drums will only prevent the drums from speaking properly and to one another.

I don't know if owners of other brands have had a similar experience with their own congas. As I've just said, my experience in this regard is very limited.

Regarding Mario's comments about certain mass-produced drums, for one he mentioned the problem of too much ringing and the use of plywood (2 or 3 ply) vs. solid staves which affects the sonic property of the shell. For example, with the LP Giovanni Hidalgo Galaxies, he said regarding its North American Ash grain that you're strictly speaking not getting the true grain of the wood but a mere "picture" of the grain.

Now, I haven't seen or touched an LP Giovanni Hidalgo Galaxy in person for years now (a percussionist friend of mine owns a couple) and I don't pretend to know enough about these congas for me to come to a similar conclusion. I'm merely quoting what Mario said to me.

Mario also has not-too-flattering comments about Remo's shell which is made from their proprietary material called "Acousticon", as well as fiberglass congas in general. He didn't consider them as true congas and said that they sound like tin cans.

We need to recall that for many, many years, Mario was "merely" a drummer playing drums made by others. With the exception of a very small handful of handcrafted drums (probably the Juniors), he was very unhappy with the great majority of them, particularly the mass-produced ones. While he had sound issues with mass-produced drums, he had quality and durability issues with handcrafted ones.

On the matter of price, Mario found most handcrafted drums and even some top-of-the-line mass-produced ones overpriced and, sadly, beyond the reach of many deserving players.

That's why Mario decided to start making his own congas, first for himself and, apparently by accident, for others (when unexpectedly more and more of them asked him to make copies of his handcrafted drums for them). He also decided to sell them at reasonable prices (a steal, IMO, considering the superb quality of drums you get) in order to make them more accessible to a larger number of drumming enthusiasts. In fact, Islas are cheaper than even some top-of-the-line mass-produced models.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186542759

[yambu321]

MANNY,
VERY WELL SAID!

TO ME, THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE FINE WOOD WORKERS, THAT MAKE SOME AWESOME LOOKING DRUMS.

THEN, THERE ARE THOSE RARE OTHERS, THAT ARE DRUMMERS, AND ALSO MAKE THE MOST AWESOME SOUNDING DRUMS, IE. JUNIOR TIRADO, (WHEN ALIVE), AND NOW, THE NEW CARRIER OF THE FLAME, MARIO PUCNHARD OF ISLA-PERCUSSIONS.

I KNOW THAT THERE ARE THOSE THAT MIGHT FEEL LIKE THIS IS JUST MORE TALK, AS IS THE CASE, WHEN THEY HERE CLAIMS ABOUT OTHER SO CALLED DRUMS, SOUNDING THE BEST. BUT HEY, THE CHALLENGE FOR COMPARISON IS THERE.
AND LIKE COCOA-COLA WITH ALL THOSE OTHER COMPANY'S TRYING TO SAY THEIR COLA IS JUST AS GOOD, OR BETTER. ISLA DRUMS ALSO STAND ALONE, FOR OH, SO MANY REASONS, AND ESPECIALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, THE SOUND!

WITH MY ISLA'S, AS WITH OTHER LUCKY OWNERS, I ALREADY OWN A PIECE OF HISTORY IN THE MAKING;
AND THEY ARE ALSO BEAUTIFUL TO LOOK AT, AS WELL! :laugh:

RESPECTFULLY TO ALL,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO



Edited By yambu321 on 1186538286

[kaukona]

I played a set of these really nice looking drums.

They were almost over built.

I have to say, i didnt like the sound of them much. They had really shitty skins on them, out of the factory ???

But i could tell, that even with nice skins, they wouldnt sound all that great.

I think this is a case of a wood craftsman making drums, as opposed to a drummer crafting wood. And how much are they?? can it be true?

just my 2 cents.

Tony

Blango-

What really nice looking drums are you referring too?

Kaukona

[kaukona]

NIce bongo.

hmm you say they ring?? I wonder if its the marine epoxy Tom uses.
I understand that Volcano's are light in weight vs oak?
Funny how you say they don't match up with your Gon Bops, are you using old GB's with white(bleached) skins?

T

Tonio-

Volcano Percussion never used and never will use Marine Epoxy glues.

Kaukona

[salzfaas]

I notice that on the subject of who makes the best congas, everyone has their own particular bent.It really is no good maligning a maker with disinformation.
I would like to make two points. point 1
Tom Alexander is not just "a Woodcraftsman" as Tony says Infact Tom Alexander has played the conga since he was 13 and also plays woodwind.
point 2 He does not use marine epoxy glue.

To compare the sound of a drum to another requires
a few stardards.The first is that the impliment striking the skin(the hand in this case ) is the same.and that it behaves exactly the same.The room
that the drum is being auditioned is a factor, as this has sound characteristics and changes the response of the instrument.
When people decide to buy an instrument there are different things that influence them.The first and most important thing is "does the instrument do it for them,does it Rock their boat,make em feel like they want to play till their hands drop off, send them to the moon etc etc"
Who else plays it, who says what about it, are all secondary.We all like to think what we have is the best,
(My women is the most beautiful in the world!).... its all subjective.
The last thing is price ,we all want value for money.
Yes you might find an amazing old conga on ebay or in a yard sale which is a find, but I bet to "put it right" you would spend time or a lot of money to make it into the ultimate beast.In Life usually you get what you pay for
handcrafted Stainless steel, biscuit joinary amazing finish, fine tune lugs for accuracy, hand picked matched staves.......I could go on.
As musicians we are all trying to perfect the art day in day out.we need inspiring instrument makers for us to find that extra note ,that extra nuance.I hope that Tonio and Bongo maligning This great inovative and musical soul does not indeed stop the true musician in searching out "the best congas in the world"

[maSSivdrums]

Aloha salzfaas,

Eloquently put. Nuff said....

Keep on Poundin'... Aloha, maSSivdrums

[bongosnotbombs]

where did everyone get "marine epoxy" from?
His website clearly says he uses an acrylic polymer finish,
thats not really an unusual or heavy finish..

Hey just cuz its hawaii not everything is boats! :p

I've seen and tried out these drums, like I said before they're really nice, everything is handmade in his shop.

Hawaii is a pretty expensive place, I think that adds to the price.

You know in his literature he has a really good argument for steam bending his staves, that it does not cut across the grain of the stave, keeping it intact and whole retains its strength. I also know biscuit and glue construction is very very strong.

Volcano has been making these drums for about 12 years now, thats pretty good.

[Tonio]

Where did I get marine epoxy?? Tom does use resin glue, which I would assume is epoxy:
Conga drums are traditionally made by assembling all the staves together at once during steam bending. Simultaneously, steel bands are pounded down around the staves to force them into position to form a drum. Consequently, when dry, the staves will always be under stress, wanting to spring back to a percentage of their original position. Coupled with constant changes in temperature and humidity, the joints can be weakened. This is the primary reason some drums delaminate after time. At V.P. Hawaii, we have found that by pre-steaming each stave individually to their final finished curve before assembly, eliminates all the spring back(stress factor). Once dried, we insert biscuits, like dowels or splines into all 24 staves to complete their proper joinery. Throughout history, woodworkers have laminated boards together using doweling and splining as added joint strength. Some other makers use steel pins, most use nothing. Glue doesn’t stick to steel pins. They use their pins to aid in assembly. We then assemble drums using resin glue, which is water proof and stronger than the wood itself.

And I agree about the biskets for laminating, thats got to be the best possible way.

BNB, I know you prefer to look at things in an overall mind set, which I also do. But I don't want any ringing drums, plus I'm a cheap bastard. I could probably buy another set of bongos for the shipping charge from Hawaii. I'm kinda torn on the whole Moperc deal too, I would love of set of the Salsa model. Its costing me about $75 for probably a 2 week delivery time on the bongos I ordered. Plus the road trip down to me, I'll have a coronary just thinking about it LOL

T

[bongosnotbombs]

We then assemble drums using resin glue, which is water proof and stronger than the wood itself.

ah thats where it comes from, to the best of my knowledge, resin glue and epoxy can be different things...when I think of resin glue used for wood, I think of the stuff I have seen carpenters use and have used myself to soak those biscuits in prior to setting them in the routed slots.....

When I think of epoxy I think of that clear stuff in those little tubes that you sqeeze then combine together, it's a different adhesive altogether..

and he does say the resin is waterproof.

$75 is a lot of dosh for your Moperc bongo! dang. I'm still thinking of getting a set of Moperc congas.

as far as ringing goes, I use to live in Hawaii, and lived in Kaimuki, there is a store there called harry's music, a super great place. I have tried the Volcanoes they had on display, and I did not notice any ringing when I played them. It was about 2 years ago.

I gotta believe there is no way someone could still be in business selling $1,000 drums for 12 years if they sounded like crap and rang like hell.

Tonio, I am not trying to convince you to buy any drum, I am just adding to the discussion what I know about the subject. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you evenetually get!



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1186596505

[Tonio]

woah, I did a quick estimate for UPS and based on 28 pounds 32x16x16 with $700 dollars value, it costs about $50 ground/$95 2dn day for delivery from Volcano.

As far as Moperc, he only accepts Money order, which took about 6 days for that, which I sent registered USPS priority- 14 bucks just for that. I originally got an estimate for shipping bongos from Moperc which came out to about $40, bucks as expedited (about 6-10 days). So I don't know where Michel is getting that figure, unless he adds packing/handling or quicker shipping.

BNB, sure I know you're not trying to pursuade me one way or another, I appreciate your opinion on all of this.
Bongo said that they ring and thats got me concerned.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1186599391