Volcano Congas from Hawaii - Any info

[Whopbamboom]

Wow, that is expensive shipping! Perhaps the Post Office would be less. But if not, then other ways could be explored for getting some to the mainland (for anyone looking to buy some VP's)

Some people might say "fly over and bring them back", but I doubt you could bring those back on your plane. I think the way to go would be to check them out at NAMM, and then try to make arrangements to have them bring your set to the following year's NAMM. Or, perhaps take a cruise ship to Hawaii and then load them up on the ship if you are able to get from the ship to VP in a timely manner (perhaps VP could meet you at the dock).

Just tossing out some thoughts for anyone looking for some VP's.

Maybe those that have VP's here on the mainland can provide input on how they brought theirs over, and what their costs were?

[109-1176549166]

I notice that on the subject of who makes the best congas, everyone has their own particular bent.It really is no good maligning a maker with disinformation...

...To compare the sound of a drum to another requires
a few stardards...

...Who else plays it, who says what about it, are all secondary.We all like to think what we have is the best,
(My women is the most beautiful in the world!).... its all subjective.

...I hope that Tonio and Bongo maligning This great inovative and musical soul does not indeed stop the true musician in searching out "the best congas in the world"

saalfaas and all my other brother/sister congueros,

Please forgive the length and some philosophical context of my email. saalfaas' email was a catalyst that I just couldn't resist responding to.

With all due respect to you and everyone:

"Malign" - To make EVIL, harmful, and often untrue statements about; speak EVIL of. (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: http://www.bartleby.com/61/12/M0061200.html)

IMHO, the claim that Tonio made (about the supposed use of marine epoxy) that you seem to vehemently object is, at worst, just an INNOCENT mistake. (Let's face it, we've all made honest mistakes in the past.) Thus, to characterize it as maligning, to me, is a bit harsh.

"Disinformation" - False information DELIBERATELY and often COVERTLY spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth. (http://webster.com/dictionary/disinformation).

Misinformation - "Erroneous material, not necessarily intentional." (http://www.oilempire.us/dictionary.html)

Again, in my honest opinion, the statement that Tonio made that you claim is inaccurate is, at worst, mere MISINFORMATION. To me, it didn't sound deliberate. Thus, to charactize it as disinformation is again a bit harsh.

BTW, ironically, you yourself made the mistake of naming Bongo, who's actually a big fan of Volcano congas, instead of Blango. Following what I "preach", I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and presuming that this was an honest mistake on your part, too.

"Subjective" - of a mental act performed ENTIRELY within the mind...and modified by individual BIAS. (WordReference.com Dictionary: http://www.wordreference.com/definition/subjective)

"Arbitrary" - based on or subject to individual discretion or preference or sometimes impulse or caprice. (The Free Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arbitrary)

As to judging which is the best conga in the world, I disagree with you that (to quote you) "its ALL subjective." It's not ENTIRELY subjective. There are certain OBJECTIVE standards of excellence (some are quantifiable or measurable) that can be used and must be used that everyone judging a conga can unanimously agree to. These objective standards should be VERIFIABLE by others. In the absence of these objective standards, the judgment rendered by a person on a conga (or most anything for that matter) faces the risk of being dismissed as a mere ARBITRARY one.

Sadly, not a lot of people are conscious of the fact that we live in a time is plagued by the cancer called "Relativism". It means that all truth is subjective. There is no longer objective, absolutely truth. Your truth is as good as mine; your opinion is as good as my opinion--even when they flatly contradict each other and only one side can be right! Thankfully, the proper use of Logic (the science of correct reasoning) and even empirical evidence can unmask the untruth from the truth.

You said, "To compare the sound of a drum to another requires a few standards." I take it that you mean these standards to be objective and verifiable. Without objective and verifiable standard, the conclusion(s) that we reach regarding the quality of a conga risks weak or zero credibility.

You used the analogy that "we all like to think what we have is the best, (My women is the most beautiful!)." The cold reality is that we can say anything we like. But, if we make a bold claim that "my woman is the most beautiful", we better be dang sure that we can back up that claim and that it's verifiable by other people. All the female contestants joining the world's beauty contests (such as, "Miss Universe", "Miss World", "Miss International", etc.) are certainly subject to certain STRICT objective standards that are quantifiable and verifiable. And that's why there are several judges rather than only one.

Speaking only for myself, on the subject of both the world's best conga, I strongly believe that there is no ONE best conga. There are a few. It's like the question of who's the best singer in the world. There are several best singers. But, there's no ONE best singer.

You come to a point where pitting one best conga to another best conga gets down to "splitting hair" and it's ALMOST impossible to tell the difference between the two. The difference in sound may be inaudible to your ear and/or to your audience. At this point, it really then boils down to simply personal preference.

As I've often said before, there's no doubt in my mind that Volcano congas are some of the most beautiful-looking congas in the world. However, IMHO, they have an inherent handicap compared with the other best congas in the world, particularly those which are made in the American continent, such as Vergara, Junior, Isla, Ritmo (Matthew Smith), Moperc, etc. That handicap is the use of woods (Koa, Mango, etc.) that are indigineous to Hawaii.

There's nothing wrong "per se" with using Koa or Mango. Their grain look gorgeous and they don't prevent Volcano congas from producing great sound. However, the incontestable fact is that the contemporary conga is a Latin percussion instrument with an Afro-Cuban heritage. To authentically capture the traditional Afro-Cuban sound, it's essential for a conga to use a type of wood that's traditionally been used to make it (oak, mahogany, ash, etc.) The cold reality is that these woods are indiginous to the American continent. I'm not so sure that using Koa or Mango will enable Volcanos to attain this sound.

But, if Volcano congas are vying for being the best congas in Hawaii or even the rest of the Pacific Islands, then to me Volcano wins hands down. But, IMO, until Tom insists on using materials that are native to Hawaii, Volcano conga owners and their fans may just have to continue living with the perception that Volcano congas are a Hawaiian version of an Afro-Cuban instrument. Whether they'll ever receive the same degree of acceptability by the rest of the world as an authentic Afro-Cuban instrument as the other well-accepted boutique brands is, IMHO, an uphill battle. It's like a Pacific Islander convincing others that he/she is Latino/Latina. But, then again, only time can really tell.

To conclude: We're all human. We all make honest mistakes and we all give innocent misinformation sometime, somewhere. Automatically ascribing malicious intent on a person giving the wrong information presumes that we're able to delve into people's motives and thoughts that, frankly, only "Someone Upstairs" can read. Worse, we risk committing the very same mistake or offense that we're objecting to.

The best way to correct wrong information is by simply substituting it with the right information. As Sgt. Joe Friday of the old 50s series "Dragnet" said, "Just the facts, ma'am."



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186611777

[bongosnotbombs]

Cuba is not part of North America, it is an island just like Hawaii.
Mango is not indigineous to Hawaii.
Much of the mahogany used in drums was / is imported from the Phillipines and Africa.
Most congas are now made in Thailand.
I have seen and tried out Skin on Skins, Sols, Islas, Gon Bops new and old, vintage Valjes, King Congas, LP Giovanni's
Bauer and Volcano percussion.
The Volcanoes were not inferior in sound or construction in any way.



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1186604780

[109-1176549166]

bongosnotbombs,

Hmmm, this is getting to be very interesting. But, not so fast, bro!

First of all, I never mentioned North America only. I mentioned the entire American continent which also includes Central America and South America. Cuba may be an island but is definitely part of this continent. This is much in the same way as Sicily, which is an island of Italy, is part of the European continuent.

Re: mango, but, of course, it is grown in Hawaii, as much as it is grown in the land of my birth, the Philippines, other Southeast Asian countries and other tropical Pacific countries.

Re: most congas now made in Thailand, this is precisely the reason why, putting the issue of affordability aside, many serious conga players (including myself) are reluctant to buy current mass-produced congas. First of all, why do most big percussion companies, with the exception of Meinl and perhaps a few others, spend millions of advertising dollars and looking at you straight in the eye or talking through their teeth trying to convince you that the wood they're using is a species of Oak (e.g. Asian oak, Siam oak), when in reality it's really "only" Rubber Wood. I need not go to the issue of using "only" water buffalo skin vs. steer, cow or mule skin.

And we all know that professional endorsers (absolutely no personal offense meant to any of them) endorse these Thailand-made percussion instruments primarily because they're paid handsomely and they've signed a legal contract to do so, under pain of litigation.

Mahogany is also grown within the entire American continent: in the Caribbeans, Central America and South America. Why would any conga maker within the American continent import this wood overseas when it can be procured locally? The main reason for the switch to Philippine mahogany is because mahogany grown in this continent has become endangered, almost extinct, and thus outrageously expensive.

BTW, Philippine mahogany supposedly is not real mahogany. We have a thread somewhere in this forum that addresses such topic.

I never stated explicitly or implied that Volcanos were inferior in any way to any of the boutique congas that you and I mentioned. On the contrary, I even praised Volcanos for being one of the best-looking congas out there. And, despite never having had the privilege of actually hearing a Volcano conga, I gave it the benefit of the doubt by presuming that it is one of the best sounding congas. However, I'm not in a position to say that it's the best sounding conga.

My thesis about the Volcano in my previous email was never about looks and sound. It was about its universal acceptability as an authentic Afro-Cuban instrument because of the woods that it uses, particularly Koa, and the sonic properties of this wood.

Any further objections? :;):



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186616505

[bongosnotbombs]

Never objected to anything... :;):

it should be interesting to note,
mahogany is also valued for use in guitars,
similarly koa is valued for use in ukuleles.
catch my drift?

[windhorse]

Perhaps everyone has their own formula - which includes at least some of the measurable factors that mjtuazon mentions. Mine is (Strength + Crafstmanship)/(weight)(tone sustain)
In other words, the drier the tone with less weight the happier I am.
Given the drum isn't flimsy or ugly as sin.. :;):
And after this year's summer trip, outside of my own congas, my new favorite drum is ISLA!!!! Mario and Pili!! You guys rock!! And Oh my god their new Bata will blow everyone's minds!!

[109-1176549166]

Never objected to anything... :;):

it should be interesting to note,
mahogany is also valued for use in guitars,
similarly koa is valued for use in ukuleles.
catch my drift?

bongosnotbombs,

I was just kidding! Absolutely no problem, bro! I do get your drift.

I know this is out-of-topic, but let me quickly address this here and, hopefully, this will be the end of it.

Re: guitar, being that it's of European origin, it is viewed as a much more universally-accepted instrument than conga which is more narrowly categorized as a Latin or Afro-Cuban percussion instrument. Therefore, the guitar has definitely a lot more acceptable variants than the conga.

Re: ukelele, although it was first brought by Portuguese immigrants during the 19th century, the native Hawaiians were quick to adopt it as their own. In fact, the word "ukelele", translated into English, means "jumping flea" :;): which the Hawaiians used to articulate how impressed they were at how fast the fingers of the Portuguese musicians played the ukelele. In time, the humble ukelele became practically the national instrument of Hawaii. Therefore, Koa wood and ukeleles going together is not hard to imagine at all.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186609654

[bongosnotbombs]

I'm a big fan of fiberglass drums myself. :p

[congalero]

as the british would say 'one mans cup of tea is another mans poison'. on any given day with any given venue, i like the option to choose the sound i want by choosing the drum i will play. call it fickle or ???, but we all choose the sound we are looking for and feel comfortable with. there is not one great drum maker that will not admit deep inside that he thinks his drums are the best - and that he should. however, i do know that he will always give credit where credit is due. for all of us, there is the option to seek out the drums that are made of specific woods and have a sound that we enjoy. in all, thank god there is choice and such fantastic craftmanship. these quality drums made today are a tribute to the quality drums of another generation.

cheers


then - tom flores around 1959



Edited By congalero on 1186641602

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[congalero]

now - tom alexander today



Edited By congalero on 1186628341

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[109-1176549166]

In fairness to Tom Alexander:

From the Volcano Percussion website (http://www.volcanopercussion.com/html/about_us.html)

Musical background:

"Tom Alexander was born in Hollywood California/Catalina Island to a Scottish father and an American Indian mother. His love of music and engineering was inherited do to his mother being an artist / jazz singer and father a structural engineer. Tom grew up surrounded by a drafting table and a lot of music. Wanting to emulate musicians, he spent a lot of time with them as a child and took an early interest in hand percussion as well as photography. This love of photography, music and percussion instruments continued all his life..."

My comment: Although the above information doesn't tell us Tom's percussion experience, salzfaas, in a previous email said: "In fact Tom Alexander has played the conga since he was 13." I'll take his word for it.

Passion for the Conga:

"Starting in 1995, after 25 years as a woodworker in Hawaii, Tom felt it was the time in his life to make the greatest project of his woodworking career, 'The Tumbadora' (conga drum). His mission was to create a drum to surpass all drums anyone had ever seen, heard or played. Since then, he has won numerous awards in juried gallery shows. January 2004, after 9 years of full time research and development of drum size and sound coordinates plus creating the custom hardware, Volcano Percussion was born. Since 1995 Alexander has built hundreds of congas & bongos which are played by many musicians in bands throughout the United States and Europe."

[Tonio]

Hola congueros!!
Let me just say that I didn't mean to make any misinformed or maligned characteristics about any one or anything about Tom or Volcano Percussion, or any person or percusion maker for that matter . I personally respect Tom and volcano Percussion for a his great creations. I may have chose the wrong words for which I apologize , but my intentions are true .
That said ,my intentions are to aquire any information for my search of a set of congas. I have played and owned Gon Bops, Skin on Skin, Meinl, LPs, Toca, and a few probably unheard of. My search is for a set of congas that represent the true nature of Afro-cuban drumming and culture. That to me is probably more in the Cuban sensibilities. With the great resourse here at Congaboard, I assumed I would get a good feedback, in which I beleive I have.
I appreciate everyones opinions.
If I make an erroneous decison, so be it. I have a few mistakes in my search
for congas and life too. If I need another catalist for my endeavours, I am sure some of the Congaboard members will help since its also in their soul.
If I don't like my set, hell I'll just get another till I find what I want



Tony



Edited By Tonio on 1186632302

[109-1176549166]

Tony,

As far as I'm concerned, don't sweat it, brother! I perfectly understand where you're coming from.

Best of luck on your search for the congas of your heart and dreams!

[congalero]

with regard to finding that 'perfect set of drums', i would suggest that one may wish have a custom set made in a wood that suits the need/desire. i find that there are so many choices out there already that it is difficult to think that a sound one wishes to get is so elusive, but i do respect the fact that a certain wood may give a particular tone not already available. i myself am debating a custom set made in cedar, but there are those that make drums who think this material would be too soft a wood for their hardware. well, when there is a desire there will be an answer. so tony, keep looking and be creative - you will find your drums.

btw - i am quite content with my volcanos, as well as everything else - but there is always another drum and another wood/sound.



Edited By congalero on 1186641443

[bongo]

NIce bongo.

hmm you say they ring?? I wonder if its the marine epoxy Tom uses.
I understand that Volcano's are light in weight vs oak?
Funny how you say they don't match up with your Gon Bops, are you using old GB's with white(bleached) skins?

T

Tonio,
Just got back from the coast and surprised at all the new posts on this topic.

Yes the Volcanos ring more than my old Gon Bops, but it is a good thing. Maybe calling it a liveliness rather than ring would be more appropriate, or perhaps that they resonate more strongly. The sustain does last maybe twice as long as the Gon Bops (which have double bleached heads) then attenuates rapidly. The effect is good, it has a rich hollow coconut open note that contrasts well with the lightening bolt slaps.

To those of you who have made negative comments on cost, sound, woodworker versus drummer craftmanship, etc, until you have experienced them side by side with other drums, maybe you should not make judgmental comments.

Believe me, the argument that these drums are just skin deep beauties is laughable. They are top notch players, very loud, very valid. The heads I have on these drums are a medium thick steer and lean more towards an LP sound than Gon Bop, but if you wanted a drier sound you could have Tom put heavier skins on them.

So there you have it .... bottom line my Volcano drums are both pretty and sound fantastic.



Edited By bongo on 1186706233