SF Drumming Scene - Fight for the Right

[bongosnotbombs]

That's hilarious Giordi! Just getting to this thread.
Was that in Mosswood park?

Nah, Dave, not Mosswood, but the Golden Gate Panhandle,
right in between where I and Lisa live...

Anyways the ironic thing about this park is it is in between two very busy streets, I am sure the noise from the cars and motorcycles and trucks is much greater than any small scale drumming that goes on there.

[blango]

Bombs!

You are the Bomb!

Its so wild, in the heart of the Haight, to have such a sign in a place known the world around for the free love and music that changed the world in the 60's. How far we have fallen. We will rise again, in time.

also, Thanks to you from all those who suffer due to the us drug policies! Really.

Tony

[vinnieL]

:D LOL I never even noticed the plants thats great man you are definitely living in the true spirit of the community you live in! lots of percussion history there.

[davidpenalosa]

Concerning the references to “The Man”, etc; I believe that city ordinances are passed by the representative body known as the City Council, not mayors or police. In other words, democracy in action. I guess conga drummers don’t represent a very large constituency. I haven’t seen any bumper stickers saying “ I drum and I vote!”.



When your music penetrates my walls and is heard in my home, it becomes noise pollution.

Is some noise pollution tolerated more than others? Yes. Drums tend to invoke strong emotions. Some people react very negatively and others positively, but rarely do they have a neutral reaction. Of all the acoustic instruments, drums probably penetrate walls more than any other type.

As I mentioned in an earlier thread though, I believe it was the downturn in the QUALITY of drumming music that promoted the Arcata City Council to pass its “bongo ordinances”. We could freely play congas in the town plaza until non-musical deadheads banged on their djembes. The low level of musicianship demonstrated by this particular subculture ruined it for all the rest of us. Any chance that the Thunderdrummers also ruined it for drumming in San Francisco’s Panhandle?

Is there anyplace in the Bay Area where drumming is still allowed? Beaches, parks?

I like the photo too.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1187714552

[bongosnotbombs]

. The low level of musicianship demonstrated by this particular subculture ruined it for all the rest of us. Any chance that the Thunderdrummers also ruined it for drumming in San Francisco’s Panhandle?

Is there anyplace in the Bay Area where drumming is still allowed? Beaches, parks?

I like the photo too.
-David

My best guess is that the parks are trying to contain the hippy hill drum circle to hippy hill, there's no way they can do anything about that event, there would literally be a riot if they did, no kidding there.

The panhandle always has a lot of activity, the only drumming I have really seen there is genuine practice. I have practiced there, I have met a student of Michael Spiro teaching his wife there.

My assumption is by not allowing drumming here in the panhandle they prevent any chance of a drumming problem, not that there was one in the first place, it's a preemPtive strike kind of thing. Again just a guess.

A friend of mine said it best, you can spare change in the park but you can't drum?



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1187716829

[Tonio]

Manny, David, yes I am aware of who appoints ordinances and what the realms are of this modern societal habits.
Just stating my opinion is all.
I have a converted garage that is somewhat soundproofed, and acoustically treated for recording/mixing. I have approximately a 45-50 dbtransmission loss for an average of 40 db SPL a weighted leakage to avoid any neighborly problems.

[109-1176549166]

MANNY,

YOUR MANY "SILENT TREAMENT" POSTS,
HAVE AN INCREDIBLE FLARE TO THEM.
A STYLE THAT IS BOTH UNIQUE, AND YET,
EXTREMELY SCARY AT THE SAME TIME.

"CHARLIE" :;):

Charlie,

??? ??? ???

[109-1176549166]

free love and music that changed the world in the 60's. How far we have fallen. We will rise again, in time.

Tony,

I'd just like to spin off from part of what you said earlier which I'm quoting above. I know that my comments below may appear to be off-topic, but I strongly feel that they have a profound connection with our thread here about the apparent strange irony of prohibiting drumming in the historic Haight Asbury district.

I totally agree that the "free love and music" changed the world during the 60s. I know 'cause I, too, am a child of the 60s, a rocker and was somewhat of a hippy then. :;):

No offense meant to you or anyone--including myself-- :;): but, based on hindsight, many social scientists have come to agree that the stark reality about the so-called "free love" during the 60s is that it wasn't really about "real or true love"; i.e., selfless, giving and unconditional love. It was more about "free sex" or casual sex, which was more focused on self-gratification, and drugs.

George Harrison was the most profound and philosophical Beatle. As many of you know, he, along with the rest of his fellow Beatles, explored Transcendental Meditation and experimented with various supposedly mind-enlightening drugs. He was quoted to have agreed with the above assessment in their "Beatles Anthology" DVD. To him, the whole "free love" movement was just another form of hypocrisy and was a big disappointment.

We all know that the old motto "Make Love, Not War", accurately translated, actually meant, "Have (Casual) Sex, Not War". Another product of clever (dare I say, sometimes devious) word engineering that man is often capable of to rationalize his behavior.

I can't think of a word more misunderstood, misused and abused than the word "love" and the meaning of true or "agape" love.

Not only did many people not found "true love", the cold reality is that many more people ended up inheriting various sexually-transmitted diseases (STD), among other unpleasant consequences of casual sex--some even eventually fatal. And many people not only ended up feeling no more enlightened and no more liberated than before but ended up feeling even more profoundly empty. I guess it's because we stubbornly cling to the false hope that we can achieve complete Utopia or heaven on earth.

Looking back, hypocrisy was not the exclusive domain of the establishment. The radicals were just as guilty of the same hypocrisy--sometimes even worse. The same "Generation Gap", which all too often breeds generational conflict is still alive and well in society and continuous its never-ending cycle. Hypocrisy continues to exist both within the old anti-establishment (us), which is now the new establishment, and also within the new anti-establishment, our youth (some of whom may be our very own children).

The inherent problem is not the establishment or any other institution that people protest against. The inherent problem can be found in each and everyone of us--in our concupiscent, fallen nature.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1187731116

[bongosnotbombs]

Nope Manny gonna have to disagree,
Jimi Hendix, Janis Joplin and the Grateful Dead all lived on this street during that time, their music is not the music of hipocrisy.

[109-1176549166]

bongosnotbombs,

Bro, you got me all wrong! You missed my points by a wide mile!

Hey, I'm probably one of the biggest fans of Jimi Hendrix (on the greatest rock guitarists of all time), Janis Joplin (the greatest female blues singer of all time and one the greatest blues singer, male of female) and Jerry Garcia (probably the earliest pioneer of alternative rock). Heck, my wife buys most of my clothes and she buys mostly Jerry Garcia neckties. You should know me well enough by now that I'd never say anything obviously idiotic such as calling the music of these legends as "hypocritical".

Now, as far as their personal lives are concerned, I don't much about theirs and I'm not in a position to make any accurate and fair judgment.

Note that I never touched on the music of the 60s.

What I was calling hypocritical was the misuse of the word love in "free love" and the so-called "peace movement". The calls for "Make love, not war" (which actually meant "Make irresponsible, casual sex, not war"), "We're gonna change the world", "(All) Cops and politicians are pigs", "Don't trust anyone over 30", "Down with the establishment", and other mindless slogans.

How were they going to change the world? With hallucinogenic drugs? As drug junkies? They said, "Not War". So, how do they justify all the rioting, vandalism and property damage that they did to innocent people that just happened to be in their way? Are all cops and politicians pigs? Some of them were our very own fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts, neighbor and friends.

And what about the lifestyle of hippies? I absolutely love the Woodstock concert. It's a musical milestone that'll etched in my memories for as long as I live. But, how did they leave Max Yasgur's farm? As one gigantic 600-acre pig sty!!!

Re: peace, it's a lot more than the absence of physical war--between countries and, even between 2 individuals. True peace is much, much more profound and deep. True peace involves detachment from many things, especially material things that most people find very hard to do without.

True peace has to start within each and everyone of us. First we have to find it. Then, we can share it. We simply can't share or give what we don't have.

Personally, I don't think that you can ever achieve true inner peace of the soul with the help of any drugs or alcohol, more so being dependent on either one or both.

Let's face it, some of us were part of the anti-establishment during the 60s. Now, how many of us are now part of the establishment?

Get my drift?

Anyway, as I've stated as my "caveat emptor" in my previous, I realize that this drift is sort of way off-topic. So, I really didn't want to get caught in a long drawn debate regarding this.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1187748127

[davidpenalosa]

Tonio,
You are a good neighbor. Sounds like you went through considerable effort to avoid noise pollution. I've been lucky in my life, I haven't had to worry to much about offending others with my drumming. I lived for over a quarter of a century in the wilderness of Northern California and was able to play my congas without bothering anyone.

Bongosnotbombs,
I think there's a difference between the 60's music that transcends and the people who made that music. Many great musicians are flawed individuals.

The Summer of Love in the Haight did not last more than a few months before degenerating into a bad scene with hard drugs. In the late 60's, many idealistic hippies moved from the City to the hills of Northern California. That "back-to-the-land" community has preserved hippie ideals right up to this day and consists now of three generations. I spent more than half my life in that community.

Those hippies who remained hippies for all these years did a good job of following their bliss, but had a difficult time taking personal responsibility. As a result, they failed as parents and the social experiment itself has failed. The community is imploding.

Therefore, I feel compelled to point out that the music of the 60's changed my life, but Manny's critique resonates with me.
-AARP hippie Dave



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1187747254

[bongosnotbombs]

Oh yeah, I have a couple of friends that have grown up on communes, I have even been to a couple....I really admire those brave pioneers.

and no one knows more than me that the summer of love happened a long time ago and the Haight is a pale shadow of what it once was...and some of the noble ideals of the time can be flawed in actual application.

..........however it still happened, and it happened here, the Haight still represents those ideals for many people, and it is exactly that ideal that the sign I took was against...

........thats why I took the sign, thats why I will always take the sign, I took it for me, I took it for you, and I took it for everyone...

there are so many many places in this city where you can't play your conga outside, they far outnumber the ones where you can.

fair enough drumming can be noise pollution, cars are noise pollution too. However, the history and legacy of the Haight street exists, freedom and music. If you don't want to hear drumming in the park what are you doing living in the Haight?

I would never think of playing in a park in Pacific Heights or taking a sign from that neighborhood...........but the Haight? of course! If I don't continue the push for freedom and music in a neighborhood whose history represents this very same ideal.....................



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1187748988

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 88-bnb.jpg

[109-1176549166]

I lived for over a quarter of a century in the wilderness of Northern California and was able to play my congas without bothering anyone.

I spent more than half my life in that community.

Those hippies who remained hippies for all these years did a good job of following their bliss, but had a difficult time taking personal responsibility. As a result, they failed as parents and the social experiment itself has failed. The community is imploding.

Therefore, I feel compelled to point out that the music of the 60's changed my life, but Manny's critique resonates with me.
-AARP hippie Dave

David,

Thanks for affirming my point!

I just absolutely love your self-described title as AARP Hippie! I used to have the 1st part of your title, when I was a member of AARP for only 1 year. But, I wasn't lucky enough to have earned the 2nd half of your title. LOL!!!

You're very lucky to have played your congas in the wilderness of Northern California for over 25 years!

You're spending half of your life in a hippy community or "commune" is very interesting. You're the first one that I "know" of to relatate a 1st account experience of such lifestyle.

I, myself, have always been a searcher (a lover of philosophy), ever since I can remember as a kid. During my late 20s, when I was still in the Philippines, I developed a strong distaste for "la dolce vita" (the good life). I came from a very comfortable family, so I had all the comforts and luxuries of life starting from a very young age.

I was on my way to becoming a millionaire by age 30, when all material things (no matter how much) became totally empty to me and meant nothing at all. At age 31, I gave up practically all my worldly possessions to enter a Trappist monastery in the Philippines to try to become a Trappist monk (Christian and cloistered).

I won't go into the details, but to make a long story short, I realized that the physical lifestyle of a Trappist monk wasn't for me. Nevertheless, I've kept many of their perspective and values and have brought them with me to the "outside" world, such as detachment from material luxury, etc. I also realized that you can still be a contemplative amidst all the "noise" (external and internal) in the world by tuning it out, much like Grasshopper of the TV series, Kung Fu.

Your hippie community somewhat reminds me of the Amish. I realize that the comparison is not exactly apples to apples, but I imagine that Amish children, when they reach adulthood, have to deal bigtime with the choice of either remaining in their sheltered community or stepping into the rat-race world.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1187762624

[davidpenalosa]

Manny,
Well, we are getting a bit off of topic now aren’t we?

I can relate to your life story synopsis. Thanks for sharing that.

I don’t want to mislead you about the hippy community. It’s not a commune, but a community of perhaps a few thousand self-styled “anarchist” private land owners. They created their own schools, clinics and community centers. It is like the Amish in its cultish quality. But the Amish deny themselves material comforts. The elders of the hippy community are self-indulgent aging baby-boomers. Just an observation.

Bongosnotbombs,
Hope you continue to play outside in the City. As Johnny Conga would say: “peace and congas!”
-David

[Tonio]

Tonio,
You are a good neighbor. Sounds like you went through considerable effort to avoid noise pollution. I've been lucky in my life, I haven't had to worry to much about offending others with my drumming. I lived for over a quarter of a century in the wilderness of Northern California and was able to play my congas without bothering anyone.

Thanks Dave. Hey I try to be fair. But the real deal is:
No sound out = no sound in, so its a 2 way street. The good part is I don't have to worry about recording the outside noise., even with a HVAC condensor rather close.

Being in the boonies does have its advantages .
ex hippie Tony