Cuban influence in early R&R and R&B - tresillo, clave and guajeo's impact

[bongosnotbombs]

I just began reading a book titled Cubano-be, Cubano-bop,
interestingly enough it describes the situation where black regiments occupying Cuba as a result of the Spanish American war became exposed to Cuban music.

The book describes the occupation in the context of Black Americans staying in Cuba and influencing the music there, however as the occupation ended and black soldiers returned home, surely some reciprocation occured.

[davidpenalosa]

PC,
I agree with everything you said about Brazilian music. My point was that there is no such thing as a “Brazilian clave” per se. Although it’s fallen out of fashion, the bossa nova rim pattern on the snare used to be erroneously referred to as the “Brazilian clave”, or the “bossa nova clave”.

I’ve already posted considerable information on the Habanera’s influence in North American music in this and the other thread I mentioned. I’ll refer you to some reference material.

John Storm Roberts documented the Cuban influence in early NO music in his books “African Music of Two Worlds”, The Latin Tinge” and his most recent “Latin Jazz”. Roberts is not the most careful scholar, but his references are very valuable. Ned Sublet is coming out with a book on NO music that will definitely have considerable info on this subject.

You may want to download these songs from itunes:

• “San Pascual Bailon” (Daniel Guzman) 1st Cuban contra danza (1803)
• “Symphonie Romantique”, “Night in the Tropics” (GM Gottschalk) (1860)
• habanera movement from “Carmen” (Georges Bizet) (1874)
• "Las alturas de Simpson” (1879) first danzon
• Solace (Scott Joplin) (1809) considered a Joplin habanera
• The Crave (Jelly Roll Morton) (1910, published 1938) tresillo borrowed from habanera-tango music.
• "St. Louis Blues" (WC Handy) (1914) tresillo borrowed from habanera-tango music.

From the NY Times archives:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst....39C8B63
“In 1938, the New Orleans pianist and composer Jelly Roll Morton talked and sang into a microphone for about a month and a half, in an oral history project conducted by Alan Lomax at the Library of Congress. He knew keenly, at that point, how powerful jazz had become -- the music that in his old days wasn't even called jazz -- and how much fame he had been denied.
What came out was the richest tumble of American culture. There was valuable information about musical life in New Orleans, St. Louis and Chicago in the first part of the century. (It includes his disquisition on how ''the Spanish tinge,'' or the habanera rhythm, influenced the blues.)

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Tinge

“Morton categorized his compositions in three groups as blues, stomps, and Spanish Tinge, for those with habanera rhythms.[1]. These included in "New Orleans Blues", "La Paloma", "The Crave", and "The Spanish Tinge".
Morton called attention to the habanera in "St. Louis Blues" as one of the elements in the song's success.”

Hope that helps.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

PC,
Sorry, I forgot to answer your question:

“How can you be sure that the 1860's composition was influenced by Cuban music, was it stated? Or does it just sound similar to habaneras that were popular at the time?”

It’s definitely been stated in many sources. Gottschalk’s biography tells the story. It also has discernable habanera elements.

From the Simthsonian on-line, there’s this excerpt that speaks to the abundance of habanera sheet music in mid-1800’s New Orleans:

http://www.smithsonianjazz.org/latinjazz/latinjazz_education_tl.asp

“• 1840s – late 1890s – The danza style known as habanera and its variants are well established in the music of New Orleans, having arrived decades earlier via Mexico. In New Orleans, Junius Hart, L. Grunewald, and H. Wehrmann publish a flood of sheet music, mostly danzas and habaneras, as “Mexican music.”

• 1850–60s – New Orleans composer L.M. Gottschalk writes and performs pieces inspired by the music of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Martinique.”

Gottschalk was interested in Caribbean musical genres in general, but the habanera (Cuban danza) was the most influential. That’s probably because the habanera’s repertoire was the largest and oldest of the Caribbean popular musics. Also, Gottschalk made frequent trips to Cuba and had connections with prominent Cuban composers.

Here’s an excerpt from the liner notes of the Arhoolie CD “The Cuban Danzón - Before There Was Jazz” - 1906 to 1929 (CD 7032)
http://www.arhoolie.com/titles/7032c.shtml

“Between 1854, and 1862, New Orleans composer Louis Moreau Gottschalk (1829-1869) visited Cuba quite often. While there, he took a particular interest in Cuban music, and befriended many prominent Cuban musicians including composers Manuel Saumell Robreno (1817-1870), Nicolas Ruiz Espadero (1832-1890), and Ignacio Maria Cervantes (1847-1905).(xxxi) Gottschalk's own composition Ojos Criollos (Les yeux creoles) Danse Cubaine, published in 1860, is one of his most pleasing and popular pieces, and it has rhythms which are both Cuban and proto-ragtime, and is probably the best of his several "Cuban" pieces.

Gottschalk's visits to Cuba seem to have helped foster musical connections which deserve special mention. Several Cuban composers produced a long stream of danzas which seem to have had a profound effect on American popular music, an effect which was undoutedly felt in New Orleans. These composers, of whom Manuel Saumell and Ignacio Cervantes, are the most prominent, offered a great many of these popular little two-part danzas, which were usually printed in magazines, rather than as sheet music. As a result, their exact dates of publication are hard to determine, especially since some were published at different times with different names.(xxxii) A substantial percentage of their compositions have what we would now call a "cakewalk" ending. The rhythms used in the "finale" of many of these danzas, and the rhythm throughout all danzons, are the same as the basic, simple, distinguishing rhythm of cakewalks. All of these forms use the "tied-note" syncopation that is also one of the several syncopated figures in ragtime.

Gotttschalk's Cuban visits seem to mark a turning point in the Cuban-New Orleans musical connection. Prior to his Cuban tours and subsequent compositions, all of the Cuban-New Orleans musical connections seem to have been limited to presentations of Cuban or Cuban-based musicians to New Orleans audiences. With the advent of Gottschalk's compositions this began to gradually change. Cuban music of varying types began to be published in New Orleans.”

[ABAKUA]

Thankyou David, always providing great informed posts.

[pcastag]

Yes, excellent stuff, very interestng and eye opening.
PC