A "natural"? - What's your definition of one?

[pavloconga]

I think that kid is amazing and is going to develop into an incredible player.

I really believe it's a combination of environment, nurture and being naturally drawn to play the drums. I believe some kids have this 'gift' and are drawn to play. The kid has to LOVE playing. Call it a gift from God if you will.

I'm not saying I'm a natural, (I've had to work at this), but I still clearly remember as a 4 year old for the first time watching a band play. I knew that I HAD TO PLAY THE DRUMS! I don't think I'd ever seen a drum kit before or even thought about it. There were all these musicians playing other instruments on stage, but I had no interest in them - it was only the drums that had me spellbound. I was magnetically drawn to them without even knowing why.

The other side of the coin is this: I perform with a singer from the Caribbean and she has a feisty 4 year old son. The kid is constantly around music, percussionists, rehearsals and congas yet he shows almost no interest at all in playing or learning how to play the congas. i.e he has the environment and the nurture (I even gave him a drum) - but he just isn't interested (not at this point anyway).

Yes, it's true, like Chapo says, there are lots of kids like that around - I have seen similarly skilled/gifted kids in West Africa.

cheers guys
P

[jorge]

I agree, that kid is amazing. Whether or not he develops into a great percussionist depends on a lot of factors. There are a ton of kids like him in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Brazil, NYC, etc, but only some of them become great drummers.

Someone asked Albert Einstein what it took to be a genius, and he reportedly said genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. It is the same here. Some people are born with more whatever-it-is than others, but unless they apply themselves and put in the hard work, they will not become great players.

Being surrounded by the culture helps a lot too. I saw Sandy Perez' group Nueva Generacion, perform when he was about 15, this was a rumba group formed of the children of Los Muñequitos and Afrocuba de Matanzas. He and others in the group were great drummers then and became even greater. Now Sandy tells me his 6 year old son can play the entire oru seco, all 3 parts of all the main bata drum songs. He is obviously a "natural", but also has worked and practiced hard for years to learn what he knows, and has been surrounded by the culture since before he was born. Same with Lucumi, los Ibellis Junior, Giovanni Hidalgo, Julien Oviedo, Pedrito Martinez, and the other child prodigies in Cuba, Puerto Rico, and other places.

It is not really "nature vs nurture", it is nature AND nurture, an interaction between the two that requires some degree of each. In addition, it requires serious motivation and energy. From what I have seen, "Normal" people like most of us can, with hard work and exposure to the culture and the right people, get pretty far even if it is more nurture than nature.



Edited By jorge on 1192885861

[RitmoBoricua]

This term is used when describing an athlete in a certain sport. How would you define a natural conguero or percussionist?

Thanks
Luis

The guy in the center playing the beat-up conga drum is a natural for sure.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... o2_039.jpg

[Tonio]

I would call Gio a Technician.

T

[Tonio]

The kid in the video has natural talent.

T

[pavloconga]

That's a great of photo of Giovanni!

Who would think the guy in the pic is one of the world's greatest congueros? (the Spiderman T Shirt is a nice touch)

Hey Tonio, with respect to you I think Giovanni is way beyond just a technician, he's a natural who applied himself and developed into a master!

[OLSONGO]

I wouldn't call a kid who was born into the musical environment a natural, I would call him a good imitator as children imitate adults, and in this kids case, he is imitating his dad. I would call a natural that person who has been around, and never really developed an interest in playing a musical instrument, but when he goes to a party and giving him a cowbell, a pair of maracas ets. he or she plays as if they knew what they were doing. My dad is like that , never played anything; but he can play the hell of a pair of maracas at Christmas.

Paz Olsongo

[CongaTick]

:cool: I have it on good authority that the "kid" is not real, but rather a CGI construction designed to confound all of us who have sweated to perfect our tumbaos.

[Diceman]

Nice one CT, I dont feel quiet so inadequate

[Congadelica]

I supose this is CGI too ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWeJcPvEhRs

Its good to bring kids up in this enviroment, something Im doing with my 7 yr old girl. She comes to Samba Bateria with me : and keep a mean son clave and cool on the bell . she insist I play bell though . but its all good fun .

marco

[CongaTick]

Definitely (I have to believe) CGI!!!! (Omygod--- 5 years old!!!)

[Raymond]

A natural in music is the same as it is in sports. Somebody who has an ability or skills without having too much in advance knowledge and to add, it grasps and learns things in that area fast or more natural than other individuals.

If you take notice, some of the most prominent musicians in latin music, recording and live music, most of them started as kids. Giovanni Hidalgo, Marc Quinones, Bobby Allende, Luisito Quintero, Paoli Mejias, Richie Flores, Tito de Gracia, , etc, etc. The list is long. (I know I am missing lots of people and people you might consider better)....These guys were considered naturals.

I've seen guys like Manolito Rodriguez, of Sonora P, and Marcos Lopez, of NKlabe, develop like that....Kids that at 14 were playing and doing things adults took them awhile... Thank God these kids were guided and sought some of the people they needed to seek to learn more and have gone through some changes. (Example: Manolito Rodriguez.....A very talented kid in all....from playing percussion to singing...I met him in my hometown because his dad is from my hometown. He was a kid wonder at 13 he could things nobody could. Great soloist and good ensemble player but always wanting to show off. He had this curiosity for everything related to percussion . At that age he got on stage with everybody and he was all showing off. He had his own band and it was all show. He got in problems with his own band and others because of his "showing off" style. He joined La Sonora Poncena and he has learned to play in ensemble. Despite that, Manolito can finish a gig wih La Sonora, show up in a club, and ask the director of the band to play each one of the instruments and even sing. He can't stand still..He is always seeking to learn...He has come a long way and has come down from his "natural days" and has learned how to do it...)

From what I've seen, being in an environment of music helps but the kid needs to be exposed and take the learning, shall we say, natural. (You can't force a kid...they tend to learn better when they do it on their own).

Also, is not all natural...these people have to work at it to develop some other skills that do not come natural. However, for them tend to be easier and they take it faster and better than the average person...

The problem with the "new" naturals is the lack of knowledge in playing in ensembles and the tendency to show all the chops, ala, Giovanni, Richie, etc. The new tendency of being a "soloist" in latin music, when before it was the other way around, has done and is going to do damage to those kids.

My whole dollar here!

Saludos!

[Mike]

The new tendency of being a "soloist" in latin music, when before it was the other way around, has done and is going to do damage to those kids.

My whole dollar here!

I give you a heap of Euros on that, too, Raymond!

Although I always a good soloist, the core of Latin drumming to me is ensemble drumming.

Mike

[bongosnotbombs]

I don't know I just saw Giovanni play in a heavy rumba ensemble with Santos, Spiro and Perazza and others, he seemed to be doing pretty well for a "natural" (awesome really), of course his solos had his signature style, but then so did everyone else's.