"Comfort" vs. "Classic" Rims - Why are there two styles?

[Bachikaze]

I'm kind of hesitant to bring up this topic, because I'm sure it's been debated or discussed before. But I did a search and found little. Pardon me if it's over-discussed.

How do you folks feel about "comfort rims"? Do they help for long playing sessions? Do they get in the way and impair certain hand positions?

My drums are Bauers with comfort rims. So far, they are working well for me and my own playing style. However, I am planning to learn Afro-Cuban techniques, which may be easier with the traditional rims.

Another reason I ask, to tell you the truth, is that I prefer the look of "classic" rims. Aesthetics are very unimportant to me compared to practicality, but I would consider changing the rims if many of you recommend the classic style for practical reasons.

Please tell me your thoughts and experiences. Thanks.

[ralph]

Comfort Rims are cool, but I can't stand the way they feel...i'd always opt for classic rims, they look better and they feel better....but another thing I noticed that to me its easier mounting a skin on a traditional rim, than on a more wide comfort curve rim, so if you do your own skin work, than you may want to opt to go traditional.

[OLSONGO]

Have played both , learned on classics. Don't make much of a difference to me.
May be when I was learning and busted a couple of internal hand veins against the edge of the classic rim.

The technique has been learned , so no problems.

Aesthetically the comfort I think is more intended to soften the edge and at the same time hide the crude cut of the edge of the skin.

Paz Olsongo

[bongosnotbombs]

"Comfort" curve rims are easier and cheaper for big companies to make, they just get stamped out on a machine.

They have their advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the traditional rim.

[caballoballo]

I agreed with Ralph,it is easier to mount skins on the traditional rims. Me, I hate the comfort rims on Bongos,they just look like sh!t specially when the skin is far down streched. It is not that hard to mount a skin (Bongos) specially if a ready mount (imported from Venezuela not Lp or other low quality skins) cost $30 and the unmounted only $15.

[bongosnotbombs]

I agreed with Ralph,it is easier to mount skins on the traditional rims. Me, I hate the comfort rims on Bongos,they just look like sh!t specially when the skin is far down streched. It is not that hard to mount a skin (Bongos) specially if a ready mount (imported from Venezuela not Lp or other low quality skins) cost $30 and the unmounted only $15.

Yes on bongos those curved rims suck! Make the bongos way too wide and heavy IMO.

Congas I don't mind them as much, still prefer traditional rims though.

[Congadelica]

I have comfort rims on my menils , I have come to the conclusion after playing with both comfort and traditional rims (friends drums),that the comfort rims may be a factor to the ringy sound we all dislike after time . My next drum will be Traditional . I have improved my form when playing so catching the rims with my hands on any drum is now illiminated .

Marco

[Bachikaze]

Thanks for the quick responses. There are some congas with traditional rims in my band, so I should give them a try. When I have sampled such drums so far, the rims weren't a problem, but my hands did get sore from the protruding edge of the skin.

I'm actually also contemplating getting Islas, which seem to have skin trimmed very close to the rims. It would be quite an investment.

[Thebreeze]

I am trying to picture the following drums in my mind with comfort curve rims......JCR, Ritmo, Juniors, Isla, SOS,
I just can't see it. I don't care how comfortable they say comfort curve rims are, you just can't beat the look of traditional rims, and I have to agree with Bongosnotboms, and Ralph, comfort curve rims are promoted by LP,Toca, etc...because it's cheaper to make, and it is easier to mount skins on traditional rims.
Having said all that, If, there were no more traditional rims to be found, I guess the LP Comfort Curve 1 rims would be my choice over the newer comfort curve rims.

[bongosnotbombs]

Thanks for the quick responses. There are some congas with traditional rims in my band, so I should give them a try. When I have sampled such drums so far, the rims weren't a problem, but my hands did get sore from the protruding edge of the skin.

I'm actually also contemplating getting Islas, which seem to have skin trimmed very close to the rims. It would be quite an investment.

You might want to look at the new Gon Bops, they have one of the most minimal and well designed crowns around, I've tried these drums and Sandy Perez plays them too. They have an excellent design developed by Akbar of Sol drums.

[Whopbamboom]

Would you be referring to the half-round rim that is used on drums like the California Series Gon Bops or the Volcano congas (as an extra-cost item, I think)?

[congamyk]

Re: far more drums being sold with comfort rims than do traditional rims, I don't dispute this. You hit the nail on the head as to why this is (partly) so when you mentioned that it's "because of price and availability". Congas with comfort rims are associated with generally-more-affordable mass-produced congas, whereas traditional rims are associated with the most expensive, handcrafted congas.

I'm not sure I agree with this premise. I know others have said the comfort curves just "get stamped" so it keeps the cost down but can't tradional rims be made in the same way? The comfort curve feature has extra costs associated with it in other ways that might make it more expensive since it uses more materials to make and weighs more than a traditional rim. So why would these manufacturers take on more expense in an effort to keep the drum "more affordable"?

If there's an increase in
(1) design cost
(2) more material used to make the much larger comfort curve
(3) the additional costs to apply a stainless finish to the comfort curve hardware
(4) increased shipping costs due to the extra weight

Look at Tocas traditional line congas, they are less expensive with the traditional rim than the same drum with comfort curve rims... marketing? I'm not convinced.

Another major factor as to why the most popular pro lines sell far more drums (which mostly come with comfort rims only) is better marketing and advertising. Note that nothing here ever denotes that congas with comfort rims necessarily sound just as good or better than congas with traditional rims just because congas with comfort rims outsell congas with traditional rims.

Again you claim a difference in tone. I haven't played every conga in the world. I'd like to hear other opinions about this since I haven't played a lot of the more expensive drums touted on this forum.

Re: Changuito, Anga, Patato, Gio (Hidalgo), etc. playing congas with comfort rims, it's a no-brainer as to the main reason why: paid endorsement and not personal preference.

I disagree completely.... a no brainer?

Couldn't these players use LP's and other drum lines they endorse with traditional rims if they wanted to? Anga used an old set of Tocas in his underground video and that had NO endorsement at all. He could easily have used congas with traditional rims since Toca offers those but again, he didn't feel the need to. Gio and Changuito could have used LP traditional rim congas in all of their vids but chose not to.

I don't believe endorsement is an issue. There are many great players that don't have endorsement deals yet and they use the comfort curve. If you are correct, wouldn't all of these great players without endorsements all be using traditional rims? Especially when recording?

Again I go back to why would the manufacturers spend more $$ on the comfort curve rims on all of their pro models if it wasn't necessary and if it made the drums sound worse?

Many of us know that the late Patato was an LP endorser and that Gio is very much still being paid big dollars to endorse LP congas which happen to come with comfort rims only.

LP has drums that have traditional rims, he could use them on LP's if he wanted to. It's just not an issue. I've seen him use both comfort curve and traditional rims in his videos. If there was a distinct sound difference as you assert, I would think he would use the traditional exclusively, but he doesn't.

[bongosnotbombs]

congamyk,
you raise some good points.

Conversely, for the sake of discussion, why would drum companies make comfort rims that weighed more, used more materials and labor and were more costly in every way? For our comfort? I think the answer is they wouldn't.

It's got to be a cheaper rim to make. For any number of reasons. Weight, labor and/ or materials.

As far as players and endorsements and instruments, who really knows what's in a musicians contract? Who tells who what instrument they have to play? What kind of rim is on it? LP might have told those guys they had to use comfort rims so they would be more accepted by consumers, it's just conjecture on my part. I think if you want to play fiberglass nowadays you don't have a choice.



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1198263286

[blango]

Comfort curves are fine, its just a way to make the drum more marketable to those with sloppy technique.

To my ear, it doesnt effect the sound. It does make it more of a challenge to change a skin, but its not that big a deal. Id like to see a hybrid, something like Del Cielo's crown, when he was making drums. Traditional crowns design is very strong and rarely bend, if not the most ergonomic.

I think pro's dont mind either way, most all have the technique to play either. Its just that the comfort curve crowns are usually on less expensive drums.

hope that helps,

Tony

[umannyt]

I'm not sure I agree with this premise. I know others have said the comfort curves just "get stamped" so it keeps the cost down but can't tradional rims be made in the same way? The comfort curve feature has extra costs associated with it in other ways that might make it more expensive since it uses more materials to make and weighs more than a traditional rim. So why would these manufacturers take on more expense in an effort to keep the drum "more affordable"?

If there's an increase in
(1) design cost
(2) more material used to make the much larger comfort curve
(3) the additional costs to apply a stainless finish to the comfort curve hardware
(4) increased shipping costs due to the extra weight

Look at Tocas traditional line congas, they are less expensive with the traditional rim than the same drum with comfort curve rims... marketing? I'm not convinced.

Again you claim a difference in tone. I haven't played every conga in the world. I'd like to hear other opinions about this since I haven't played a lot of the more expensive drums touted on this forum.

I disagree completely.... a no brainer?

Couldn't these players use LP's and other drum lines they endorse with traditional rims if they wanted to? Anga used an old set of Tocas in his underground video and that had NO endorsement at all. He could easily have used congas with traditional rims since Toca offers those but again, he didn't feel the need to. Gio and Changuito could have used LP traditional rim congas in all of their vids but chose not to.

I don't believe endorsement is an issue. There are many great players that don't have endorsement deals yet and they use the comfort curve. If you are correct, wouldn't all of these great players without endorsements all be using traditional rims? Especially when recording?

Again I go back to why would the manufacturers spend more $$ on the comfort curve rims on all of their pro models if it wasn't necessary and if it made the drums sound worse?

LP has drums that have traditional rims, he could use them on LP's if he wanted to. It's just not an issue. I've seen him use both comfort curve and traditional rims in his videos. If there was a distinct sound difference as you assert, I would think he would use the traditional exclusively, but he doesn't.

Mike,

I really don't want to belabor this issue or spend too much time on it. So, hopefully, this will be my last response to this discussion. Beyond this, it'll probably suffice just to re-read all the arguments previously presented for either comfort rims or traditional rims.

From the Meinl Percussion website: http://meinlpercussion.com/product....te.html

"All of Luis’ needs have been met and exceeded with the MEINL Artist Series Luis Conte Signature Congas. They combine the charm and sound of the old traditional Cuban drums with modern features and innovations. The congas are equipped with traditional rims, are mounted as close to the shell as possible, and when combined with MEINL’s True Skin Buffalo Heads, they enable an even more controlled sound".

I happen to have a good amount of exposure to the manufacturing process. My parents used to own a 100-employee manufacturing company in the Philippines producing OEM parts for some of the major car assemblers. I worked for my parents for almost 10 years.

Bnb is right. The savings with comfort rims is more associated with labor rather than with material. Comfort rims appear to be made using a 1-step stamping process. Traditional rims, however, appear to be made using a multi-step process of (1) making the rim and (2) welding or riveting the mounting ears to the rim.

Design involves a 1-time total cost. And, in mass production, the design cost per item is reduced the more that item is manufactured. In Cost Accounting term, this is called "cost amortization".

Most comfort rims and traditional rims both involve some type of chrome (not stainless) plating finish. So, this is a wash.

Increased shipping costs due to the extra weight of the comfort rims should be negligible and immaterial.

Re: Tocas traditional line congas, you're right that they're less expensive than (some of) their same drums with comfort curve. But, if you compare the specifications, you shouldn't miss the fact that the main reasons for the increased prices of their more expensive models are: (1) type of wood used and (2) paint finish (versus natural finish for the traditional line).

Your example is only true for Tocas and is, therefore, not conclusive. Meinl's top-of-the-line (and most expensive) congas, the Woodcraft Series, uses traditional rims. Gon Bops' 2 most expensive models (the California Series, Tumbao Custom Pro and Custom Pro) are more expensive that the rest of their conga models (which have comfort rims).

We overlook the fact that the main reason why comfort rims were introduced were precisely to provide comfort to playing hands and to help prevent hand injury, especially for beginners and even experienced players who may have improper or bad hand playing techniques. It is clear that this is meant to attract more and more people to take up playing congas rather than discouraging them from doing so. This is clearly a marketing objective.

I suspect, too, that perhaps conga manufacturers are trying to minimize the possibility of multi-million dollar litigations caused by injured hands.

Could the pros use drum models that they endorse (which are normally sold with comfort rims) with traditional rims if they wanted to? It depends on the manufacturer. Meinl evidently acceded to Luis Conte's specification to have traditional rims on his signature model. As far as LP, Toca, Pearl, etc. are concerned, evidently it's a different story.

Now, if you were the owner of any of these companies, would it make business sense to let your professional endorsers use conga models that are different from the ones that you're trying to push/promote in selling? I'd definitely think not!

Companies, particularly their marketing dept., know only too well the psychology of the consuming public. Countless buyers want to be associated with and play exactly the same congas being used by the professional players (so-called "celebrities") that they admire or even idolize. And some of these buyers are even willing to pay a certain premium in price for the privilege of doing so. That's why these companies area willing to pay (and actually pay) huge sums to have these professionals endorse certain lines of the congas they manufacture.

And, evidently, we don't have a shortage of professional conga players who don't mind receiving such huge sums to play (and have their pictures taken with) congas which may or may not be their top choice if they didn't have their endorsement contract to begin with.



Edited By umannyt on 1198223972