What about thumbs?

[Joseph]

Saludos to all here.

This is my first post.
I can’t express how thankful I am to have found these forums, so many questions have been answered for me.

My question: What do I do with my thumbs?

Now bear with me for a bit of background.

I consider my self an amateur.
After a 20 year lapse, I have rekindled my interest in percussion…and now it’s burnin’.
Re-started when I began attending a local drum circle.
Got a djembe…like everyone else…then rapidly realized that tumbadoras were my first love.
I now have a set of 3 LP Patatos

Now I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck.
I spent 3 years in a Drum& Bugle Corps in High School, playing snare drum, learning from a jazz drummer, whose mantra was “rudiments, rudiments, rudiments!”.
I’ve owned and played drumset in a couple of garage bands, and then ended up with a set of 2 congas, playing mostly rock beats.
I studied music for 2 years in college: theory composition, etc. I received an AA degree in music in an ill fated attempt to learn and play the piano.
What a humbling experience that was… I should have stuck with my core competency…percussion, and I might have pursued my musical education further.

So here I am now.
I don’t have a teacher at present.
I live in north Florida…which is much more like south Georgia…rather than south Florida, with it’s vibrant latin culture.
In spite of the fact that there are a fair amount of hand drummers locally…mostly of the hippie, soul drummer type…there aren’t a lot of players of latin beats here (that I have found …yet!).

So I’m on my own (for now)

I’ve been working with the Thomas Cruz books (have all three).
In retrospect, having read a lot of posts here, I realized that I have hurried through Vol 1 because I wanted to get to the rhythms.
I have now gone back to Vol 1 and gone back to a very conscious practice of tones and rudiments, (..rudiments, rudiments!), as well as posture, breathing.

I have also been working with Michael Spiro’s Conga Guide, which has done wonders for my sense of the rhythms.
All those little intangibles: phrasing from the upbeat, rhythmic cells, “fix”…four in six, “lick-part” playing
I’m really getting a sense of making the rhythm swing.
He also emphasizes proper technique at all times. Technique first…speed later.

Back to the question: What do I do with my thumbs?

In Thomas Cruz Vol 1 he states:
Open Stroke: “…the hand is held so that the fingers and thumbs are held tightly together”
Bass Stroke: “…The fingers are slightly apart, but the thumbs remains tightly closed against the hand... It’s important that the whole hand is used and not just the palm”

In my revisiting of Cruz Vol 1 rudiments, I am noticing how my thumbs have not been held as described ( they’ve been loose to flailing), and have made a conscious effort to hold them as described above.
However I am noticing tension in my hands as I hold them in that position.

Is that something I will get over as I break a bad habit and relearn the proper hand technique?

Am I tensing my hand too much in an effort to have the correct position?

Would a preferred explanation of the position be: …”the thumb remains closed, yet relaxed against the hand”…?

Does any of this really matter in the long run?

I’ve watched plenty of video, and seen lots of variety in the way players hold their thumbs in relation to hands.

What do you do with your thumbs?

Am I being too anal?
….Please don’t tell me to stick my thumb up my ass! :laugh:

Joseph

[windhorse]

Hi Joseph, I'm sure I'll be only the first of many responses to your question. If I'm not mistaken this question was posted within a year ago and answered by the masses.. But, it's a good question, so let's all answer it again.. :;):
BTW - Spiro's book rocks!! I'm discovering all kinds of awesome things that are just rocking my world right now in that book!

Everyone's thumbs are different. By that I mean some are are longer, and hang differently than others.. Sort of like other body parts which I'll allude to, but not overtly name.. :p
So, what works for one isn't the same answer for others.
I have a friend who is one of my drum teachers who plays with his thumbs held stiffly erect.. (cough cough,, OK, I'll stop .. sorry)
I found that worked for me, but it caused another problem, it was tensing my shoulders too much.
So, I then tried another teacher's answer which is to slightly curl the thumb inwards so that the tip touches the drum, and knuckle points upwards. This works fine, but again causes a slight degree of fatique as well.
So, my answer is to play with the thumbs held fairly tightly in a straight, strong, and slightly slightly curled inwards position, and just stay a bit concious of them especially on new drums. Also, minimizing big aggressive strokes..
It's always that other guy's drum - you know the ones - where you've got to use more hand since it's a tumba, and it's big cast iron rims and the head is .5 cm or less separation from the rim, and you friggen bang the heck out of your thumbs!! Ouch! I hate that!

Good luck! and welcome to the forum!

[buckoh]

Joeseph, there's a great player/instructor in Jacksonville Beach named Jim Solomon. Back in 1979 he taught me a great Afro 6/8 that I still use as a mantra in practice. I saw his name on a book somewhere and a music teacher friend of mine met him at a teachers' forum. So, I'll bet he's still there. Good luck. Buck

[bongosnotbombs]

I just saw Francisco Aguabella in concert the other night, and he had his thumbs in on the slaps and the bass tones, but sticking out on the open tones.

[Joseph]

Thanks for input

Workin with it for a couple of days, and I ‘m finding my own way, and relaxin’ with it.
Watched more assorted youtube videos, and thumb placement is all over the place…depends on player.

I agree with you bongosnotbombs …I’m going to emulate the Francisco Aguabella style.
That style makes the most sense to my hands
Closed thumb for slaps and bass…open and loose for open tones.

I’m realizing that I was holding thumb closed in open tones, subsequently contacting the hard rim with my bony joint, and have a callus of the first joint of the outside of my thumb.
I’ve noticed, in the past, after a session of wailing on it, those thumb joint calluses hurt.

After reading other posts, I am of the opinion that calluses can be avoided with proper technique.
So I’m readjusting my hand positions, just have to make the conscious effort.

Regarding calluses: I once saw an African drum & marimba group in a bar in Cape Town South Africa.
4 drummers, 3 marimbas. These guys played for 3+ hours non-stop: fade up & down, ease & intensify, modulate the rhythm…but never stopping.
Had the entire place absolutely swinging.
One by one, they began peeling away from the group. Starting with a drummer, then a marimba player, etc. Took about 45 minutes to get down to the final drummer, who continued on his own for another 15-20 minutes.

This final drummer absolutely sung his drum! His solo performance was as mesmerizing and musical as the entire group.
Needless to say he just wailed on that skin!

After the performance was over, I went to congratulate him for such a fine performance….but really wanted to shake his hand.
I was convinced he had to have big tough bear claw hands to make those sounds.
I was shocked to feel his hands…as well as his handshake…were as soft and smooth as kid skin

Anyway, thanks for input.

We all find our own way
Joseph
.

[bongosnotbombs]

yeah man, I have the same callous.

I play with my thumbs outside now.

[rebongo]

Yes, the hand position of Aguabella is the more classic, and the more logic too: my teachers Roberto "Mamey" Evangelisti (the best afrocuban percussionist in Italy) and Chino Chang Rodriguez (former soloist tumbador of the orchestra of Pello El Afrokan) teach this position.

[JohnnyConga]

To me conciously sticking your thumbs "out" put "tension" in the hands, and is not conducive to your playing, but that is my opinion and the callouses on both my thumbs, are never going away, my thumbs because of my 'hard" playing over the years are somewhat deformed a bit now(from the edge of the conga), bu it hasn't stopped me to this day from playing...Johnny Conga...



Edited By JohnnyConga on 1200069399

[Joseph]

I wasn't so much thinking of sticking thumbs "out".

More like relaxing them away from the body of the hand when making an open tone, to avoid taking that hard hit on the thumb joint from the edge of the conga.

Wow...deformed thumbs...the longterm consequences conguerohood...

...has it affected your hitchhiking? :;): <snark>

Thanks for input. I value your lifetime of knowledge, as evidenced by so many informative posts

Joseph

[Chupacabra]

I just tried an experiment with some of my drums using a variety of thumb positions and found that on the tumbadoras with cow hide the closed position reduces the ringing overtone and has less resonance, the djembe with it's goat skin makes little difference in sound, ashikos with thick elk hide was the same as tumbadoras.
I guess what I'm getting at is that every drum has it's own characteristics, which also is directly related to the style of music being played and the type of hand the Creator issued you with. Sometimes it's just not practical to keep the thumbs in!
I should mention that I too consider myself an amateur.