is 3 drums needed? - technique, Rhythms and Exercise

[Michaelangelo Rosario]

. i have been playing 2 drums a quinto and a conga, my bass player told me that i should add another drum a tumbadora for a more melodic sound.. my question: are 3 drums necessary in a latin/jazz setting...i was thinking about added a dejembe
so it will be dejembe to my left.. quinto in the middle... and conga to my right...or will a tumbadora be more practical?

[timo]

In my oppinion three congas sound good, but it is not necesary to use three, (the best conga solo I have ever heard was played on one conga). It depends much on what you play and how you play it, I personally only own two congas so three is out of the question. Its a matter of personal preference and oppinion. For the next question, I personally will not play djembe and congas at the same time, but this is for other reasons than sound, but if you like the sound and it fits with the music you play, go ahead and try at least. The problem you would have, (that is if you play sitting down), is that a djembe is not as tall as a conga, but if you play standing, then stands solve this problem.
hope this helps.

[kmmurrdog]

I play in an acoustic duo (me and guitarist/singer). My setup consists of conga, requinto, and I keep my djembe off to the side for some occassional lows. I usually don't mix in any tones or slaps on the djembe. I save those for when I play just the djembe. I find that it works pretty well. We have an 18" sub and a 57 in the bottom of the drum produces more low than I could ever ask for.

Give it a try. If possible, have somebody record it. If you like the way it feels and sounds, roll with it.

[muddy323]

i cant play without 3 drums....i need that big bass sound to accent the bottom of the song...rolling on 3drums sound so good...but the tuning of the tumba is the key to a great sound...i had to watch a lot Poncho and video to understand how that third drum could be used...but once i found out...i cant live without it

[RayBoogie]

I usually tune my Tumba first before I tune any other of my drum. To make sure it meets to my satisfaction. Here's a trick I learned from one of my conga video, (the tone of "here come the bride"). It always work!

[120decibels]

I love having three drums, but I often only bring my quinto and my tumba out. This is usually due to space considerations.

As far as melody is concerned, having three drums really lets you open up the sound of rhythms. Many of the rhythms that we play in a jazz situation are adapted from three player parts. For example, you can assimilate a lot of the cool three player melodies from guauanco recordings into your playing with three drums.

Listen to Patato. He is a great melodic player. So is Tata Guines.

A djembe might sound good too. I've never tried to blend the two sounds. Give it a try.

Zach

[benbaboon]

I usually play four congas. It compensates very nicely for limited skill. it makes it easier to create cool variations...allows you to reach for a low sound with your high drum hand.
It also significantly expands melodic options.
I never feel limited though as long as I have two congas..... and if I play the quinto I'd very rarely even touch a second drum.

[yoni]

I found it interesting that timo wrote the best conga solo he ever heard was on one conga. A drum head is like the string of a stringed instrument, in the form of a plane rather than a line... and as with a string, the sonic options are vast even on one drum head. For years I owned only one conga at a time; a heavy oak gon bops tumba was my main ax for long.

Two congas are classic, giving the option of another place entirely to go tonally. Three congas are what I'm lucky enough to own at the moment and I even add another drum (ntenga) to them when space is available.

But I can enjoy the sounds available from one drum for hours.

[Raymond]

The use of more than two congas all it does is "add color and variations to the tumbao or groove of the conguero" in the tune. Also, is preferred by some for soloing especially those who are "showmen".

I do not see it as essential unless they expect you to be more in the spotlight of the group.

[RitmoBoricua]

The use of more than two congas all it does is "add color and variations to the tumbao or groove of the conguero" in the tune. Also, is preferred by some for soloing especially those who are "showmen".

I do not see it as essential unless they expect you to be more in the spotlight of the group.

Hi You hit it right on the head, Mr. Raymond. The only time I like 3 or more drums setting is when Patato o Candido play them, they really play all of them continously and know how to play them where they embellish the music. I have seen some of the younger top professional generation with at least four and to me they kind of get in the way of the music, they be playing super fast and criss-crossing hands and all, "The Shomanship" deal. I saw once "Santana" with Raul Rekow and Armando Peraza each with at least 4 drums going at it at the same time and for some eason did not float my boat, it was like too much, over the top, did not sound good to me. I am going to mention one guy that swings like nobody's business with two ( I know Raymond, JC and Tamboboricua know the guy) his name is Papo Pepin. Ever since Giovanni and Changuito revolutionalized "las tumbadoras" with blinding speed and drum rudiments, too much emphasis is put on trying to be the fastest machine gun on all these drums,and not enough on how to play with "Saoco/Mazacote Gordo/Sabor y Sentido". Give me Papo Pepin, Milton Cardona, Tommy Lopez, Mongo or Frankie Malabe anytime. My two cents!

[Fish]

Agreed, everyone...

I will always be far more impressed by someone who really knows how to use one or two drums than someone who plays 4 or 5. That's not to say it necessarily sounds better - it's just that I believe one of the differences between a good musician and a great one is the ability to make do with less.

Many of my favourite solos (on any instrument) don't demonstrate any blinding technique. Certainly what they never do is rely solely on that to impress anyone - they are great because they show an incredibly affinity with their instrument and the song. Showmanship and technique may get good applause but don't think they make you a good musician.

This is not to diss anyone that plays on 4 or 5 congas. Many great players specialise in that and make it sound brilliant. All I'm saying is don't think that playing on many drums makes you any better than someone who plays on one or two. Above all don't rely on that to make you look or sound good.

Fishio

[120decibels]

Fish,

Agreed. I am consitently amazed by players of all instruments who can 'manage space'. What I mean by that is that sometimes a good solo or a good groove can be measured on the places where the players are not playing.

This translates really well to the drums. There are some players who can groove and play absoulutely amazing things with one drum (they've been mentioned in previous posts). Also, the really good players (in my opinion) are those who know when to throw down a really fast, really chops-intense lick but also know when to play a tasty syncopated or just open lick with lots of cool spaces in it.

It's all about the flavor and the sound that you're going for. I like to have three drums when I can because I like the melodies that I can create with all those extra sounds. I also like to challenge myself to keep things interesting on one or two drums. I'm still learning, but I think using both of these approaches helps.

My $0.02,

Zach



Edited By 120decibels on June 17 2003 at 07:22

[RitmoBoricua]

That's not to say it necessarily sounds better - it's just that I believe one of the differences between a good musician and a great one is the ability to make do with less.

Hi. In the 40' and early 50's players used basically one "tumbadora". They had to make the best of what they had. I mean thay had to really learn their craft to get all the tonalities needed from only one drum, that's amazing to me. To me the essence is to translate what is in your soul/spirit/heart thru the drum and let the drum speak and do the talk. One good example of this is "Concinando" the Ray Barretto tune where Ray Barretto (Tumbadoras), Dandy Rodriguez (bongo) and Orestes Vilato (Paila)engaged on some deep drums conversation amongst themselves. Check it out and see what I am talking about.

[Raymond]

(Ritmo Boricua), you mentioned one of my heroes, Mr. Papo Pepin. In my opinion, one of the most influential congueros of the "salsa genre". He is famous for his variations and "coloring" in his tumbaos. He is no Giovanni or Richie Flores or Paoli but when I am in a group that is the type of conguero I want. Papo is emulated by a lot current congueros who preferred his "tight, slow, colored tumbaos". Most important he does not overdo the use of hits on different pitches like some of the "show congueros" do who do them blazing speed. His tumbaos go "unnoticed" sometimes to the untrained ears but are there. (One of my favorite recent tumbaos from Papo and I think is one of his best is the one in Marc Anthony's "Si tu No te Fueras", outstanding)!

Jimmy Morales emulate him a lot and Marc Quinones and Bobby Allende say that is his main influence. Papo has crossed generations. He comes from the old "classic" generation and is with the new generation doing "new stuff." He is actively recording in New York still....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on June 17 2003 at 15:48

[RitmoBoricua]

(Ritmo Boricua), you mentioned one of my heroes, Mr. Papo Pepin. In my opinion, one of the most influential congueros of the "salsa genre". He is famous for his variations and "coloring" in his tumbaos. He is no Giovanni or Richie Flores or Paoli but when I am in a group that is the type of conguero I want. Papo is emulated by a lot current congueros who preferred his "tight, slow, colored tumbaos". Most important he does not overdo the use of hits on different pitches like some of the "show congueros" do who do them blazing speed. His tumbaos go "unnoticed" sometimes to the untrained ears but are there. (One of my favorite recent tumbaos from Papo and I think is one of his best is the one in Marc Anthony's "Si tu No te Fueras", outstanding)!

Jimmy Morales emulate him a lot and Marc Quinones and Bobby Allende say that is his main influence. Papo has crossed generations. He comes from the old "classic" generation and is with the new generation doing "new stuff." He is actively recording in New York still....

Saludos!

Hi. Mr. Papo Pepin Rock Solid "Tumbao"! I have been listening to him since he was with Willie Rosario back in the early 70's. On the Super Apollo album (Roberto Roena) he takes a solo like no other on the last cut of the album.