Bongos:hand made fom the dominican republic

[Thebreeze]

To whom it may concern....I just saw a set of bongos in ebay that appear to be the same one piece shell as those that a member converted the hardware on recently. Link....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bongos-hand-made-fo ... dZViewItem

[Thebreeze]

You know....I tried to let you guys know and I kept looking at the auction and they were still available and I figured someone is going to jump on these and it won't be a forum member so I went ahead and bought them. The price was more than right and now I will be able to sell my JCRs and get these restored with new skins etc.. There is someone already negotiating with me for my JCRs and he will be happy with them. I will settle for a lesser set of drums but that is ok with me.






Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labor that I had labored to do; and, behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was no profit under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 2:11

[randyc]

They look to be the same as the Caribbean Rhythms set that I picked up recently. I was mistakenly advised that they were El Piernas, long story short - they weren't. However, they do sound fantastic. Check out Yambu's retro-fit to upgrade the hardware under my post "New to Bongos". Congrats on a great buy for $89 US.
Cheers, Randy.

[Thebreeze]

Randy...after looking at these bongos and jcrs bongos, to me, they are exactly the same shells. The only difference I see is in the hardware. Do you know if jcr imports their shells? I just wonder if they imported their shells maybe they got them from the same source?

[umannyt]

Will,

JCR definitely has the know-how, skill and equipment to lathe 1-piece bongo shells from lumber. Therefore, I can't imagine Cali Rivera importing his bongo shells from anyone. I think this would put his good reputation and credibility on the line.

Regarding the similarity between this shell from the Dominician Republic and JCR's, it could either be just coincidental or both makers may have patterned it from some old classic, traditional design.

I think I can already anticipate Isaac Gutwilik's response to your question. But, I'd rather that it came from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

[Thebreeze]

Here is all I am saying Manny....First of all, you have to have big chunks of Mahogany on hand in order to make one set of these shells. In my opinion, it seems that the place where these woods grow locally is the best place to locate the wood, let it season for who knows how long, then make the shells on a lathe and you know that all the pieces of wood are not going to turn out grade A. Some will probably not even make it to become a shell. That is why you see Caribbean rhythms sell bongos online with different Grades for different prices. I can safely guess that jcr makes thier own hardware because they are set up for it and after all he makes a reputable cow bell for many years now. Put your self in this position....You want Grade A mahogany shells....you contract to buy them from a maker in a country rich in mahogany. Now all you have to do is put on the hardware and skins. No problems dealing with bad grades of shells or bad pieces of wood. Make sense? sure it does.
I have a friend that purchased a set of bongos, one piece shell, with a certain brand on it. A few months later I saw the exact same bongos, with a different stain on them made by Barranquillas colombia on ebay. It is no surprise that it would make the best business sense to import the shells. Does this mean that I am onto something? Not at all. After all, If I spend the money to put good quality hardware on these shells and good quality skins, I am going to end up spending somewere in the neighborhood of 400 dollars. So If these are not the same shells as JCRs then I hope anyone offended forgives me for being out of line. I still have my opinion and I reserve the right to hold onto it.

[umannyt]

Put your self in this position....You want Grade A mahogany shells....you contract to buy them from a maker in a country rich in mahogany. Now all you have to do is put on the hardware and skins. No problems dealing with bad grades of shells or bad pieces of wood. Make sense? sure it does.

...I still have my opinion and I reserve the right to hold onto it.

Will,

I absolutely meant no disrespect. And no one's taking your opinion away from you, most of all me.

All I was trying to say is that, although you may think that it's good business sense, I'm much more inclined to think that Cali Rivera WON'T do it and DOESN'T need to do it. Cali is a master craftsman. Aside from cowbells, Cali handcrafts some of the finest handcrafted congas and timbales in the world. IMO, he can easily handcraft bongo shells from scratch, even lathe it from solid wood.

Can you imagine if people found out that Cali merely imports his bongo shells and the only manufacturing input he has is making and adding the hardware? And what would then stop competitors or even buyers, like ourselves, from doing the same? I'm speculating that this would actually be detrimental to his business in the long run.

What percussion buyers, like myself, mainly look for from a master craftsman like Cali is knowing and being assured that he/she actually put a lot of his own expertise in the making of such drums. This is what I meant when I said that his reputation is on the line.

[yambu321]

THEBREEZE,
I MUST SAY MY FRIEND, YOU ARE CORRECT, JCR IS SET UP TO MAKE THE HARDWARE. BUT, THERE ARE NO MAHOGANY TREES, FOR SHELLS, IN THE BRONX. I KNOW, I GREW UP THERE. CALI, USED TO GET HIS SHELLS FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, AND PROBABLY THE SAME SOURCE. MAHOGANY IS PLENTIFUL THERE. HOWEVER DUE TO ADDED COSTS, I UNDERSTAND THAT HE NOW GETS HIS SHELLS ELSEWHERE.

YES, JCR WILL DECIDE ON DESIGN/APPEARANCE FACTORS, THEN ONCE THE SHELLS ARRIVE THE HARDWARE AND THE SKINS ARE ADDED. (IF I'M WRONG I'LL STAND CORRECTED). REMEMBER, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS PRACTICE, IT MAKES BUSINESS SENSE. BUT ALSO KNOW THIS, IF YOU TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, A PAIR OF SOLID MAHOGANY SHELLS FROM CARIBBEAN RHYTHMS, AND HAVE MATTHEW SMITH, OR JCR, MAKE THE HARDWARE, THEY'LL BE JUST AS GOOD AS ANYTHING SIMILAR OUT THERE, BECAUSE IF THE WOOD TYPES, AND CONSTRUCTION METHODS ARE EQUAL THEN THE QUAITY OF SOUND WILL ALSO BE SIMILAR. ALSO NOTE, THERE IS NO SHORT CUT TAKEN BY DOING THIS BECAUSE, JUST AS THEBREEZE HAS BASICALLY MENTIONED GOING THIS ROUTE WILL STILL COST YOU ABOUT $400.00 WHICH IS WHAT A PAIR OF JCR'S GOES FOR. SO WHAT'S THE BENEFIT THEN, YOU ASK? YOU CAN HAVE THEM CONFIGURED YOUR WAY AND HAVE A UNIQUE PIECE.

CARIBBEAN RHYTHMS SHELLS, ARE USUALLY THICKER THAN THE JCRS.

I ALSO OWN A SET OF JCRS, HAD THEM SINCE 1996. THEY ARE GREAT BONGO'S JCR IS ONE OF THE VERY FEW SOLID SHELL BONGO PROVIDERS. OTHER'S USE STAVED CONSTUCTION METHODS.
YES, ANYONE CAN MAKE A PAIR OF BONGOS IF THEY TRY HARD ENOUGH. BUT, I DON'T SEE MANY JUMPING ON THAT TASK.

CALI'S REPUTATION WILL ALWAYS BE TOP TIER, HE IS A MASTER ARTISAN, AND HIS BONGOS ARE SOUGHT AFTER BY MANY AROUND THE WORLD. FOR THE WISE, THE FINAL PRODUCT, IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
CHARLIE

[Thebreeze]

Thanks for that info Charlie. I never even meant any disrespect from the very beginning. I believe some people might think that if someone imports the shells that that takes away from their total quality, but in no way does it. You really brought the whole thing into focus much better than how I was trying to describe it.
Thanks again.

p.s...Manny..I have nothing but respect for you, and I appreciate your posts very much. Thanks.
I am glad to see that in this forum.

[umannyt]

p.s...Manny..I have nothing but respect for you, and I appreciate your posts very much. Thanks.
I am glad to see that in this forum.

Thebreeze,

Thanks a lot for your very kind words. I feel relieved and I'm glad to know that all's well.

Me, too. I never mean any disrespect whenever I take an opposing view. I completely respect other people's right to hold and express their opinion. In fact, as a strong believer and advocate of the Socratic Method of Thinking, I greatly encourage it in order to arrive not just at the subjective truth but more desirably at the objective truth. I may not always agree with others. But, whenever I do disagree and express it, I always try my best to focus solely on the issue(s) and never the person. It's just not in my nature, my upbringing and my education to make personal ("ad hominem") attacks.

As usual, it's very hard to judge a person's mood when he's communicating via email. Unfortunately, a lot of unnecessary misunderstandings have been brought about by this limitation of the email. Sometimes, even with the use of emoticons, what someone is sincerely trying to say can still be misconstrued or even doubted. I know this only too well 'cause I myself have been on the receiving end of such misunderstandings several times in the past.

Anyway, with regard to this issue concerning JCR bongos, I suppose that unless we have a direct testimony from Cali Rivera himself and/or Isaac Gutwilik, without revealing any confidential information or trade secret(s) of course, our opinions are mere speculations and/or hearsay. There are 3 possibilities: (1) One side is completely right and the other side is completely wrong; (2) One side is completely wrong and the other side complete right; or (3) Both sides are partially right and partially wrong.

I, too, could be wrong and am completely open to being corrected.

[Thebreeze]

Very well spoken Manny. I am looking forward to recieving those bongos and trying to do what yambu321 is doing,although I don't think mine will turn out as nice as his. He has done a great job which will be my inspiration to try to duplicate. Nothing like starting a new project.

[Thebreeze]

Fyi to anyone interested..I finally got to speak to the ebay seller that I bought a set of Mahogany solid shell bongos from. He seems like a nice guy on the phone, just seems like he has so many items he had to pack for shipping that he fell behind. I think he needs to get the hang of being an ebay seller. Anyway, my bongos are now in the mail. I will post pictures when I get them.
Thanks.

[Thebreeze]

Well...I received the Bongos and of course the skins and hardware were in very poor condition as I expected, but the Mahogany shells are really nice. I sanded just the Macho shell so that you can see a comparison. I am still working on the hardware issues so it will be a little while before I have that matter resolved. But here are some really beautiful pictures not only of the Bongos, but also of the three mule skins I recently recieved from "EL GRECO". The two Bongo skins will go on these Bongos, and the 21" mule skin will be put on reserve for a very special drum in the near future.











I can just imagine how nice these Bongos are going to look and sound.

[Tonio]

Looking good. How long did it take to get the El Greco mules skin?

Obviously you didn't have a customs problem importing them. They look totally different from the Venezuelan mules.

Anticipating your opinon once mounted.

T

[Thebreeze]

Tonio....I was very surprised how quickly the mule skins got here. It had to be no more than a week for sure. No problems at all with importing them in, and the smoothness on these skins are incredible. You can see by the pictures that they look unblemished in any way and that is exactly right. Plus it's a great pleasure dealing with "El Greco" . He is a very courteous, honest person and he loves to communicate via emails so he stays in touch throughout the entire transaction. You can tell he is very excited and proud of those mule skins and I am glad I will get to try them out soon. I will post all my observations and opinions once I put them on the bongos.
Thanks Tonio.

Will.