bongo and conga - how do they fit?

[martin]

I am a little bit more than a beginner on bongos so please forgive me for this question.

Is there a general function of the bongos when playing for example a tumbao? Is it good to play the martillo then ore should the bongo be used just for fills or solos.
Because when i play the tumbao on congas....it is very difficult to produce a louder sound on bongos.

second: When playing the martillo.....what is the role of the conga.

Is there a theory about this ore is it just what yoy like to do (the feel and taste)

Thanks for answering!



Martin

[Mike]

Well, first some THEORY from an expert, namely Rebeca Mauléon. She says in her great, great book "The Salsa Guidebook":
"The numerous variations surrounding martillo-playing could be easily categorized as improvisational, in that there are no actual set patterns... As the tumbao of the congas already provides a strong emphasis on the fourth beat .., this enables the bongo player to play FREELY over the tumbao, without disrupting the stability of the rhythm (...) The bongocero generally plays martillo through the introduction, verses and lower dynamic sections (such as during a piano or bass solo), and picks up the handbell for the montuno section" (mauléon, p. 74 f.)

Now to the PRACTICE: IT IS REALLY EXACTLY THE VERY SAME AS THE T H E O R Y !!!!!!! i.e., you really grab your high-pitched, high-tuned lovely macho-hembra-couple and start "martillating" with rolls, flams, always ACCOMPAGNING the rest (melody, solos etc.)
And in the very hot parts of the tune take your cutting-through LP Sergio Bongo Bell (My favourite!) and hit it, baby...!
Of course the congas provide the tenor-bass-sound layer on which you can really unfold the much higher pitched bongo stuff, but on the other hand we congueros of the new school take care that we won´t yawn when playing ourselves, will we? ;-)

Was I of any help? By the way, I´m a fervent lover of especially bongos + congas working well together. Martin, do you play them simultaneously?

[martin]

Hi Mike,

no i don't play them simultaneously (Congas a little more than the bongos). There a few reasons for that.
1. i do not have a good stand
2. i mostly play by my own (in september i will join a latin-jazz ensemble and i will practise further on the congas for the second year with my teacher (André Groen a great percussionist and drummer)
3. i read on the forum that a lot of people think that you
advices to practise first a few years on one instrument and learn the basics very well and then expand with other instruments. I agree with that but on the other hand i like to improvice with my bongos between my leggs and 2 congas around me a and other stuff (guiro, claves and little shakers (eggs))

Do you know if people of this forum see each other sometimes and make some music together?
Perhaps it is an idea for the future.

Man it is very hot now here in Holland (very unduth weather 33 degrees) i'am going to get a beer!!

Bye!!

[Mike]

Martin,
I don´t play bong+cong at the same time very often, I just meant that a good conguero PLUS a fine bongosero together are a cool rhythm section, so to speak.

What you said about meetings sounds like a very attractive idea - which is in desperate need of being dicussed with all the other rhythm kings who visit congaplace on a regular basis. Well, I would love to meet not in cyberspace but in real format! Let´s check where all the guys come from!?!

[Mike]

I think meeting to jam etc. is somehow difficult when I think twice about it. Many live overseas (from the European p.o.v.), but what about a, let´s say, Dutch summercamp? Dream, dream, dream... !?!

By the way talking ´bout bongos, I found that ´even ´ LP has some bomgos with larger diameters (i.e. a 9" hembra). I play Afro Elite Bongos of 7 and 9" and am very happy with that deep hembra sound! What do U think?

[martin]

Hy Mike,

how are you doing?

it's a while ago (holiday, busy at work and so on and so on), but here's my answer: i play Afro bongos to 7" and 9". I like them, but last thursday during my lesson i played on LP's with a sort of a "plastic" head (the macho). It produced a rather fat and sharp tone (i liked it very much).

I have little bit problems with switching the bongos and the bogobell just at time and because i cannot read music very good i have to do it with my ears instead of my eyes. I have to hear a song a few times. I'am willing to read a little bit about musictones and -theory about latin music. Do you know a book?

At this time i'am playing "El esencia del guaguanco" (Johnny Pacheco). I like it very much.

Bye

Martin

[JohnnyConga]

Mike a good conga drummer and bongo player with the timbales have to learn to count bars. Once you know how many bars there are in a section you will know when to make the transition to the bongo bell without missing a beat. today that is a problem with a lot of percussionists,especially in latin bands you have to count BARS.....So count the bars of each section,and learn the transitions,and your playing will become as smooth as the music your playing to. hope that helps...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[JohnnyConga]

Sorry Mike the last post was for MARTIN>>>>>JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

Martin the role of the conga is called "AFINQUE" where the responsibility is for the conga drummer to "as I say" Lock and Rock, hold time and when you are experienced enough to know "Fill the holes",while you keep that time. Congas to a latin band is what drumset is to a Rock band...the BALLS!!! Excuse me but I think you understand,Right? as I was told coming up and learning,was a Quote from Phil Diaz my first bandleader 1965,said "When it's time to make your statement,make it then and and not before" concerning when is it time for me to express myself on the drum(Solo),until then "Lock and Rock"......Afinque! Peace and Congas/Vibes...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Jongo]

The Art of Playing Timbales covers a little bit about how the bongos, congas, and timbales function together. The book does not go into a tremendous amount of detail but it is helpful. The more you know about what each instrument is doing and why the better off you will be. When I was taking lessons I could only afford group lessons and I was a little bummed about that but it worked to my advantage. I learned to play with people and I learned my part and their part so I knew what they were playing and where they were supposed to be. It helped me lock in and stay solid. So if you know how the bongos congas and timbales work together you are in good shape
Juan

[Firebrand]

I never took any books on the subject...just listened to CDS. A LOT of CDs.

I learned Bongos first playing Jibaro rhythms...which is el "martillo" or sometimes referred to as the "caballito". That's great when the Bongo is the main percussive instrument (fulfilling the time-keeping function of the Conga in Salsa genres). But, when the Bongo plays with Conga, there is no set pattern. It's improvising and off-beat accents all throughout, without becoming so "busy" that it messes up the song.

How do you get to know the different "variations", "styles", and "possibilities"? Listen to every Salsa record you can find. Listen all the way from Gilberto Santarrosa/Victor Manuella erotic pop salsa..and what the pros do in those settings, to Batacumbele traditional/guaguanco bongo playing to Eddie Palmieri/Lalo Rodriguez/Ray Barretto old style Salsa records.

In fact, I'd highly recommend starting with listening to what the Bongo players of Fania (Roberto Roena), Ray Barretto's ensemble (listen to Fuerza Gigante and Indestructible records...PURE GOLD). Those records will give you the unadultered, unecumbered (by erotic salsa production requirements) rhythms of true, "calle" (street) salsa bongoceros. Those are the records that will run the entire spectrum of salsa: sudden shifts to bomba/plena, guaguanco sections, mambo, descarga sections, 6/8 sections, etc...

I'm a firm believer that someone who practices martillo and accent technique on Bongo, coupled with listening to these old "calle salsa" records will inevitably begin to emulate those sounds. You will know when your Bongo variations start sounding like the improvisatory styles of those old style bongoceros...and when you do achieve that sound, you will have a solid foundation to play on ANY salsa ensemble, pop/erotic or salsa dura.

Immerse yourself in the music...put those records around the house when cleaning, put them in the car, and put them in the shower...your whole "personality" will start adapting itself to the fluctuations of the music.

It's hard to describe...but when I hear a salsa band or perform in one...I now instinctively react to certain "motifs" from the percussion or other sections...there's certain "rhythms of the trade" that you will learn only through listening to the music. Rhythms that, if you "catch them" while performing, will distinguish you as a bongocero "in the know", who knows "the roots."

[blavonski]

I never took any books on the subject...just listened to CDS. A LOT of CDs.

I learned Bongos first playing Jibaro rhythms...which is el "martillo" or sometimes referred to as the "caballito". That's great when the Bongo is the main percussive instrument (fulfilling the time-keeping function of the Conga in Salsa genres). But, when the Bongo plays with Conga, there is no set pattern. It's improvising and off-beat accents all throughout, without becoming so "busy" that it messes up the song.

How do you get to know the different "variations", "styles", and "possibilities"? Listen to every Salsa record you can find. Listen all the way from Gilberto Santarrosa/Victor Manuella erotic pop salsa..and what the pros do in those settings, to Batacumbele traditional/guaguanco bongo playing to Eddie Palmieri/Lalo Rodriguez/Ray Barretto old style Salsa records.

In fact, I'd highly recommend starting with listening to what the Bongo players of Fania (Roberto Roena), Ray Barretto's ensemble (listen to Fuerza Gigante and Indestructible records...PURE GOLD). Those records will give you the unadultered, unecumbered (by erotic salsa production requirements) rhythms of true, "calle" (street) salsa bongoceros. Those are the records that will run the entire spectrum of salsa: sudden shifts to bomba/plena, guaguanco sections, mambo, descarga sections, 6/8 sections, etc...

I'm a firm believer that someone who practices martillo and accent technique on Bongo, coupled with listening to these old "calle salsa" records will inevitably begin to emulate those sounds. You will know when your Bongo variations start sounding like the improvisatory styles of those old style bongoceros...and when you do achieve that sound, you will have a solid foundation to play on ANY salsa ensemble, pop/erotic or salsa dura.

Immerse yourself in the music...put those records around the house when cleaning, put them in the car, and put them in the shower...your whole "personality" will start adapting itself to the fluctuations of the music.

It's hard to describe...but when I hear a salsa band or perform in one...I now instinctively react to certain "motifs" from the percussion or other sections...there's certain "rhythms of the trade" that you will learn only through listening to the music. Rhythms that, if you "catch them" while performing, will distinguish you as a bongocero "in the know", who knows "the roots."

I just read this post from over 7 years ago and couldn't agree more with those observations on learning to play Bongos
With the exception of my having started with Martillo by listening and playing to very old Cuban Son/Son Montuno Trio's and conjuntos etc. and, (while still listening to and playing to those genres and styles), moving on to danzon and guarachas and rumba with a little Changui thrown in from time to time as apposed to Salsa per se; I also believe that an immersion approach is invaluable for learning an instrument regardless of the music's Language of origin.
Correction: Been listening to " A Toda Cuba Le Gusta" by Afro Cuban Allstars", 1997, featuring Rubén González for over a week now. The rhythm section is beautiful, it's all wonderful with some very tasty horn arrangements and I've been picking up on what side of the clave to do fills against the conga and accents to the melody. In my opinion, only continued listening can make those elements palpably clear.

At any rate, with that said, can anyone here confirm that LP Matador series Bongos have a date written on the rabbeted, bottom hoop tennon of both shells? I recently purchased a pair in mint condition with the date 10,22, 1994, ( I assume it's a four, because it looks like a triangle) written with black marker at these places, and was curious if this was ir is common practice for LP. Thanks!

Good Vbrations,
Blavonski

[PowerSemantic]

Blavonski,

Before he erased all of his posts, I remember Leedy2 mentioning something about how that date is supposedly the date LP received the shell from the Thai factory. I have seen this date on LP Cosmic, Matador, Classic, and Valje drums of various models. It seems not to be on LP drums from before production was outsourced to Thailand -- it was missing from two mahogany "deluxe" CP bongos I have owned, but present in a CP "Supreme" Ashiko drum. This is an easy way to separate the "vintage" drums from the more recent fare. You tend not to see many dates before the mid-to-late eighties.

[blavonski]

Greetings PowerSemantic,

Thanks for the info!
Do you happen know if, at that time, only the shells were produced in Thailand with the hardware being fabricated in the US? Not that it matters much, Just thought I'd ask because all the parts, especially the polished alluminum hoops are very well made and sit snuggly. These Bongos must have been sitting under someone's bed for close to twenty years, in a box.

Good vibrations,
Blavonski

[Omelenko1]

When I was getting into bongo playing, the great Orestes Vilato' told me: "If you want to learn proper martillo and contra tiempos (off beats) you have to listen to Arsenio Rodriguez, where the great Papa Kila was the bongocero. This is the bible for proper bongo playing with "afinque". I also recommend listening to Cachao records where the legendary Yeyito Iglesias played bongos (In my opinion Yeyito was the tastiest bongocero in history). Many conga players approach bongos like if they were congas, they are very different. Bongo playing is driven by a strong martillo with accents and ocassional contra tiempos, keeping that "afinque" in the pocket. Utilization of the hembra when you start a solo is a must, a lot of people neglet the hembra and only execute on the macho, this is wrong, "el sabor" is on the hembra. Mongo and Dandy Rodriguez always stressed the usage of the hembra. LISTEN TO ARSENIO!

Dario