Ringing conga, new skin?

[Mario2CP]

Hi,
I have problem with my Meinl Luis Conte Series conga 11 3/4. It has a strong and long metallic resonance after any tone, you can check it out on video. It's gotten even worse lately so i'm thinking of chaning skin. I was advised to go with cowhide or synthetic. Unfortunately, most of the synthetic skins go with curver rim and Luis Conte series have traditional cuban style rim. Do you know if there's any synthetic skin right for it? Any adwise on ringing?
Thank you

[Mike]

Yeah, nasty ringing indeed.

Due to the thin water buffalo head, at least partly, your hear these tones,
so a skin upgrade will improve the sound considerably.
But do not use a synthetic head! Ringing will tend to increase rather than stop with synthetic heads.
Decent cow or mule skin (see the list of skin suppliers) might be a better idea...

Sometimes there is ringing inherent to the shell construction. If you take off the head completely
like you did in your other video and knock the shell, you might notice the overtones, the shell "sings".
You cannot get rid of that other than burning the conga - or selling it and opting for other constructions with drier
tones.

But new skins do wonders, believe me. Perhaps your conga is quite new and the skin needs to break in?

[vinnieL]

Also make sure that the head is tuned eveny all all around and that all the hardware is lined up straight (hardware). Check all the hrdware mounting points to make sure they are all tight as well. A good skin will also help but be careful don't get too thick a skin. Bill Confer out in Texas is a good man and he has the thickness thing down to a science he knows exactly what is needed. LOok in the skin supplier list here in the forum. Good luck.

[thomas newton]

The gentlemen above have given you good advice. Room acoustics and your technique on the abierto are making a difference here too.
Improve both of those and you will have different results.

Don't rush to spend more money - it's part of your education to make the best of less than perfect drum.

[Mike]

your technique on the abierto [is] making a difference here too.

I would like to echo Thomas here, since I have seen in your video that your fingers are pretty much apart
when you play the open tones on the LC Meinl.
So proper technique will significantly enhance the tonal quality. I have a German instructional DVD on which
Axel Schüler, a real pro, gets some wicked tones out of the same conga you have, without any other skin.
Especially when it comes to tuning, the more time you spend on it, the better the result will be.

The idea of new skins could be still lingering in the back of your head...

[taikonoatama]

That's some seriously nasty ringing. When you still hear this type of ringing (with the long decay) even after closed slaps (or other strokes that mute the head), I really don't think technique is the real cause - I don't see a major technique issue here that would lead to this level (or type) of ringing - it's way beyond that. I bet you'd still hear the ringing even after a bass tone where you leave your hand planted on the drum, completely muting it.

Possible causes:

1. Head is not evenly tuned.
Solution: Make sure you hear the same pitch when tapping the skin in front of each lug

2. Head tension is too great for the drum, pushing it beyond its capabilities.
Solution: Well, you mentioned that the ringing is there even when tuned lower, so if it's still bad even when tuned lower, it's not an issue in this case.

3. Skins are too thin - thin skins are inherently more subject to causing ringing
Solution: Thicker skins.

4. Skins are not broken in
Solution: Play the crap out of them for 6 months and get back to us.

5. Head shell is out of round - not likely with this drum, but check it. This can cause really weird/bad overtones.
Solution: Not worth trying to correct it unless it were a rare/valuable drum, where you might go the effort of pushing it back into round and installing an alma to keep it there.

6. Bad skins - Assuming these are water buffalo, which is inherently ringer than cow/steer/mule. And these particular water buffalo skins could be lemons.
Solution: Get some high-quality new (flat) skins (cow/steer/mule) and put them on. There are threads and how-to videos and help here - you can do it yourself.

7. The surface you're playing on - playing on concrete or stone or anything super hard can cause bad ringing.
Solution: Play on wood if possible, even if it's just a small piece you put under your drum.

8. Shells are badly designed or made.You'd think this would be quality design and manufacture, being Meinl. Maybe you got a lemon.
Solution: Firewood.

Now, #1-7 above, and technique, all can create weird overtones that are transmitted both directly into the interior cavity of the drum and down the shells themselves, which then vibrate, and somewhere in this mix there's a problem.

Three other easy ringing fixes to try that don't necessarily target any of the specific issues mentioned above but can greatly reduce ringing:

1. Tape a piece of heavy duct tape to the bottom of the skin. Try different sizes.

2. Put a piece of soft foam padding up into the drum. Try different sizes, and either touching or not touching the inside of the head. You should be able to find a size and position that reduces the ringing with greatly affecting the rest of the sound.

3. Put the drum on a (thin) piece of carpet or foam, and play on that. Try different materials/thicknesses.

Good luck,

James

[Whopbamboom]

If you're recording in the studio and not on stage, and you don't mind a little blue thing on top, then give Moongel a try. I've found it works great in a pinch. Just doesn't look good when playing live.

[CongaTick]

I wouldn't speculate on what's causing the ring. It does seem beyond a technique issue, but hard to say. I will agree with Thomas though. His words:
"... it's part of your education to make the best of less than perfect drum." is to my mind one of the important commitments those who can't afford Volcanics or artisan drums (most of us?) have to make. An excellent point, Thomas.

[PRDRconguero]

There is a process and tools involved, but has anyone just stopped in at a cattle/steer/beef farm or ranch and inquired about skins? I've seen some farms up north...

Are hides the optimum part of the animal? Any preferred breeds of cow/steer?

[Mario2CP]

Thanks to everyone for their opinions and comments!

Skin type is Meinl's "True Skin buffalo"; conga is tuned qiute well (not me by me:) ), ringing is present with pro congueros too. Rim is even
Lugs are fine, i dont think it's an hardware issue. Room's resonance changes ringing indeed, but the conga rings a lot even playing base or mute tones which is striking.

I'd like ask few more things -cow/steer/mule? what thickness?
Since I'm from Czech Rep. Europe... do you know any good europen supplier? Germany, France maybe? I only found one from Greace.

Thank you all once more for your ideas on my problem!
Mario

[Mario2CP]

So I called to one Czech tannery and they can preprare a calf skin for me around 1 mm thick. Would it suite my conga?
Thank you in advance,
M

[docarroyo]

Hello I do not claim to be an authority but have been playing for a long time and have had similar experience. An old trick is to slightly resoak the skin to a point its plyable this removes some of the natual oils. Remount it on drum thighten and let dry. Its a risky move but what do you have to loose the skins sound bad any way. I recycle skins from congas to hembras on bongos and found the sound is muted for a great thump when resoaked and it loses more of its oils. I try not to complicate things by over thinking them. Let me know if this works for you. Check out my idea for shell protectos in the open discussion section another simple solution to a commen problem.

[Mike]

So I called to one Czech tannery and they can preprare a calf skin for me around 1 mm thick. Would it suite my conga?
Thank you in advance,
M

Ahoj!
Such a thin skin like the one you mention is prone to further ringing!
And calf skin is usually too weak for congas anyway.
A good source from Germany is http://www.bongolei.de because Mark Collazo has some terrific skins there.
Take a look at the skins Mark sent me: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4420&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
International shipping should be no problem.
Another quite good source is http://www.percussion4you.de/product_in ... cts_id=326 or maybe this cow skin: http://www.percussion4you.de/product_in ... cts_id=318

And have you taken a look at how wonderful the Luis Conte congas look with cow skin? viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4508

Good luck
&greetings
-Mike

[kubaszek82]

Hi
I've bought a skin in poland from pablomusic.pl
Probably the cheaper solution.
http://www.pablomusic.pl/en/contact/
They sounds really great, and how they look? These are my congas:
http://www.mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4508
and probably peyo79 drums also:
http://www.mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4467

[doctor bloor]

Thanks to everyone for their opinions and comments!

Skin type is Meinl's "True Skin buffalo"; conga is tuned qiute well (not me by me:) ), ringing is present with pro congueros too. Rim is even
Lugs are fine, i dont think it's an hardware issue. Room's resonance changes ringing indeed, but the conga rings a lot even playing base or mute tones which is striking.

Mario

Try James's suggestion above re: foam inside the drum. If your Meinl is anything like my Matadors, the wood on the inside is smooth and the glue has been cleared from the seams, resulting in a very smooth, resonant surface. I can get ringing from my drums by tapping on the bearing edge or side of the drum even when the head and hardware have been removed. I taped a single sheet of newspaper around the middle third of the drum, and the ringing was pretty much eliminated. You don't need much--the goal isn't to absorb the sound waves, just to keep them from bouncing around on the smooth surfaces.