Ringing conga, new skin?

[taikonoatama]

I wouldn't speculate on what's causing the ring. It does seem beyond a technique issue, but hard to say. I will agree with Thomas though. His words:
"... it's part of your education to make the best of less than perfect drum." is to my mind one of the important commitments those who can't afford Volcanics or artisan drums (most of us?) have to make. An excellent point, Thomas.

Hmmmmm... Have to respectfully disagree here. Although I can see this wisdom being applicable to some situations (where for whatever reason things are what they are and cannot be changed), in this case I think a far better education would be to figure out why the thing is ringing (within reason), and short of that, to at least try to stop the ringing even without knowing the ultimate cause. I do not see why he should simply accept the ringing as fait accompli. He may not have to even spend anything to greatly reduce it if one of the ring dampening tricks works.

[thomas newton]

We aren't really disagreeing taiko. I'm not saying he should accept the ringing ( as represented in a video clip remember so we can't actually hear the drum, take it outside and play it, and otherwise mess with it ourselves ).

I am concerned from comments and responses on youtube and on here that this gentleman's expectations are too high for an intermediate mass manufactured drum- also that he is set on a course of action and isn't really looking to do the worthwhile work ( we will agree ) in getting the best out of this drum as is before spending more money.

If it really rings so horrendously at its very best, I'd contact meinl and tell them. I definitely would not spend 150 euros or whatever on skins to put lipstick on a pig, so to speak, but put it towards a better drum.

Regards,

[taikonoatama]

We aren't really disagreeing taiko. I'm not saying he should accept the ringing ( as represented in a video clip remember so we can't actually hear the drum, take it outside and play it, and otherwise mess with it ourselves ).

I am concerned from comments and responses on youtube and on here that this gentleman's expectations are too high for an intermediate mass manufactured drum- also that he is set on a course of action and isn't really looking to do the worthwhile work ( we will agree ) in getting the best out of this drum as is before spending more money.

If it really rings so horrendously at its very best, I'd contact meinl and tell them. I definitely would not spend 150 euros or whatever on skins to put lipstick on a pig, so to speak, but put it towards a better drum.

Regards,

Ah, thanks for clearing that up - I see where you're coming from now.

[Mario2CP]

Hi everyone,
i found a skinn supplier from Poland who has cow skin of 1-3 mm thickness. Which one should i go with in my specific case?
Thank you,
Mario

[congalou]

Hi,

I think you better use thick skin : 2,5mm - 3mm, You will have less ringing but you can't stop all.

And before mounting, it's good to wax the bearing edge with a candle to lubricate. The tuning will be more easy. And it's good to lube the hook too !

Cheers,

Galou.

[Mike]

Hi everyone,
i found a skinn supplier from Poland who has cow skin of 1-3 mm thickness.

Mario, that is just great.
Yes, in your case, the thicker the skin, the better, because it will give you the
authentic round and perhaps dry conga sound you seem to be after.
You will see, even if you cannot stop the ringing completely, the sound will
improve considerably!

Good luck, happy mounting and enjoy your drums!

Cheers
Mike

[Facundo1]

Mario,

I have to disagree with most of the advise you have been given. Personally, I am against think heads in general. They tend to be very hard on the hands and in my experience they are not necessarily needed. There is an optimum thickness for every drum depending on the diameter of the head and the wood the drum is made out of. That is to say a particular thickness will bring out the best sound in most of the normal tuning ranges of a particular drum. Thinker skins will add body to the sound of a tumba but choke the life out of a quinto and some congas. The wholesale recommendation that you go to a thicker skin may do away with the ringing but could cause you a lot of problems with your hands over time. I learned this years ago from having the good luck to hang out with Mongo whenever he would come to my town. On one occasion I was in the dressing room with him and had a chance to look at his drums closely. I was absolutely shocked to find that he used very thin skins!

Bottom line there is a lot that goes into how a drum sounds. However, there is nothing more important than touch. In looking at your video it appears that you are striking the drum which might sound strange but there is a difference in the sound you get when you learn to feel the weight of your hands falling on the drum. This is a subtle technique to master but will make all the difference in the world regarding to the quality of the tones you get out of your drum. Also, it looks like the skin is fairly new and does not have much of the oil and salt from your hands that tend to season the skin which also affects to tone.

All of this is not to say that a good cow or mule hide won't get rid of a lot of the ringing. However, I am convinced the biggest part of the problem is with your touch and the age of the skin. Whenever, the opportunity presents its' self let other seasoned players play your drums and listen to the sound they get. Dime will get you donuts you will hear a difference in what you get when you play them. I learned this years ago when I let an expert play my drum. It sounded like a different drum all together. I telling you this guy could make a cardboard box sound sweet. It all about the touch!!

Best regards,
Facundo

[Whopbamboom]

Facundo, thanks for posting that. I am aware that different diameters of drums will take different thicknesses of skins, but the rest of that seems to be food for thought.

[Mike]

Personally, I am against think heads in general. They tend to be very hard on the hands and in my experience they are not necessarily needed. There is an optimum thickness for every drum depending on the diameter of the head and the wood the drum is made out of. That is to say a particular thickness will bring out the best sound in most of the normal tuning ranges of a particular drum. Thinker skins will add body to the sound of a tumba but choke the life out of a quinto and some congas.

As you say, your personal experience has you led to dislike thick heads, but others have made different experiences.
I just would like to point out that it is fairly difficult to generalize... You are free to disagree of course.

Fiberglass congas for example, usually require thicker heads. And some quinto players like to have ultra-thick heads (and they have still got two working hands ), others ultra-thin heads - depends on the liking of the individual player and his technical abilities I guess.

Apart from that, thick skin does not mean thick skin that is automatically hard on your hands, not only concerning the sizes tumba , conga, quinto, but also what type of skin it is! Thick mule, thick cow, thick water buffalo - all sound different, and the range within the species is also amazing!

I should not have said, the thicker the better, perhaps that was a bit too general, alright.

Those Meinl can take thicker skins though.

-Mike

[Facundo1]

As you say, your personal experience has you led to dislike thick heads, but others have made different experiences.
I just would like to point out that it is fairly difficult to generalize... You are free to disagree of course.

Fiberglass congas for example, usually require thicker heads. And some quinto players like to have ultra-thick heads (and they have still got two working hands ), others ultra-thin heads - depends on the liking of the individual player and his technical abilities I guess.

Apart from that, thick skin does not mean thick skin that is automatically hard on your hands, not only concerning the sizes tumba , conga, quinto, but also what type of skin it is! Thick mule, thick cow, thick water buffalo - all sound different, and the range within the species is also amazing!

I should not have said, the thicker the better, perhaps that was a bit too general, alright.

Those Meinl can take thicker skins though.

-Mike[/quote]

Mike,

Yes, I am saying for my personal taste I like thin skins although not ultra think like the average goat skin. And grated some players do like thicker skinks which is obviously your preference. My main point of disagreement was with what I read was for him to automatically go to a thicker skin to remedy his ringing problem. Primarily because it was obvious to me that : the skin currently on his drum was not broken it and secondly because his touch was off. All skins sound
decidedly different once they have been broken in. Even the shells also have a breaking in period that needs to happen to adjust to the extreme tension caused from tuning. All of this happens over time. In my humble view it is a mistake to rush to change equipment which may not be the core problem. I stand strong in the opinion that his drum needs breaking in time and his touch is off. Experienced hands make all the difference in the sound of any drum. Yeah, water buffalo skins leave a lot to be desired compared to good cow or mule heads but again it take proper touch to get the best out of them as well. I also stand firm in my opinion that thick head on a quinto kills the essence of the sound of the drum. Maybe one day our paths will cross and I will have the opportunity to show you what I am saying in person. Yes, just my opinion.

Facundo1

[Mario2CP]

Hi,
i just want you to know that i have the conga almost a year, i did play it a lot in the beginning (4-6hrs a weekend day) at least 30mins a regular day, i brought it to parties where other congueros played them too. As the ringing gotten worse and worse, i simply stopped playing 'cause i cant stand it. I can only practice with music played from speakers so that i dont hear the ringing. But this is not a way to learn to play... If i practise on slow tempo (which i should since im begineer) it just kills me. I think conga had its time to adapt,develop etc...

Mario

[Facundo1]

Mario,

That is really weird that the ringing would get worse over time. And yes it sounds like the drum should be broken in with the amount of playing you mentioned. Maybe you should try another head. Without seeing the drum in person that is all I can say.

Facundo1

[Whopbamboom]

Is the drum going out of round?

[Mario2CP]

Is the drum going out of round?

I dont know how to measure it precisely.This one looks just fine by eye.
M

[Mario2CP]

So, my skin arrived, but I measured it with scientific digital meter and the thicknes varies between 1.69mm-2.50mm with gausian distribution, e.i. most of it is 2mm. Should I even try mounting it? I dont want get the worth sound after all the waing... How long should such cow skin be soaked in water?

Thank you,
Mario