advice given to beginners

[vinnieL]

Ok gang Ive seen a lot of great advice to beginners coming to the forum but ive seen some that in my opinion is bad. Ok what is the most important thing for a beginner? Well a good set of congas is #1 of course and with this comes varying opinions one thing we can all agree on is to get the best congas that the individual can afford. Well without getting into conflict as to which drums are better there are several options.LP Matadors, Pearl Elite, LP Classics, Gon Bops tumbao pro,Meinl Luis Conte,LP Patato, LP Galaxy, LP Palladium etc. As most people are on some kind of budget being big or small this list for the most part covers a wide range of price levels. Some advice given is to search the used market which is perfectly acceptable if the congas are in great condition and need no work to get playing immediately.

Often time beginners are told to search for vintage Gon Bops or other Vintage drums and i feel this is where the advice gets bad. More often than not these congas need some type of work whether it be head replacement or hardware issues or worst yet out of round or cracked shells. This is not the time for a beginner to have to start working on a drum to get it in playing condition it's their time to enjoy their new congas and begin learning to play them correctly. What a beginner needs is a good set that is ready to go from the beginning. Most commercially made drums have heads that are acceptable regardless of how we as individuals fell about their sound. Sure here are better skins out there that sound better but for the initial few month the factory heads work. Countless pros play these heads and make them sound incredible on stage and even in recordings. Its time for sound developement in the beginning stages not learning how to mount heads. Recently i saw a posting where a beginner viewed a listing on craigslist for Matadors and one poster advised that it was a great deal (even though one drum was cracked) and that cracks where easily repaired. Wrong time for crack repairs! the beginner doesn't need a lesson on crack repairs either again think sound developent.

The goal here is to pass on information for the better of our art not only for the experienced but also for the beginner. Remember the beginner who is at the infancy stages of the art we love needs the right tools for learning that are ready to go right away. Another bit advice that i think is questionable is the custom or handmade congas. Most of these drums will take month's to acquire and are very expensive. Human nature is such that an individual usually has their mind set to get their congas soon after making the decision to learn and many times is one of those situations where "I have the money now so i better get them before something else happens" etc. Nothing wrong with boutique congas at all as they are in general the best way to go but usually for the player who has developed their sound and knows what each stroke should sound like. It is at this point where the true quality in sound and construction of these congas can be appreciated. Then theres the issue of which sizes to get. Well this varies some but a larger percentage of players pro's and amatuers use conga/tumba setups. A smaller percentage of players use quinto/tumba but that is a smaller percentage of players and so it seems in my opinion that most players will be well served with a conga/tumba as a basic setup. This of course is not the rule but will be acceptable to most people out there that are playing.

Another bit of advice that is correct at it's core but questionable in general is to just get one drum. Well while the theory of learning on one drum is correct most people will want that second drum within weeks of playing regardless of their proficiency on one drum. People enjoy being able to see their set sitting there it serves as a type of motivator or mental stimulation for some. But what happens if an individual buys one drum on the used market? What if they want to find a match a short time later and can't find it? I feel that they should just get their set to begin with and that way they will always have that beautiful matching set. The beginning stages is no time for frustration. Just my humble opinions and thoughts for beginning advice. I apologize for the long post.

[korman]

Great post, Vinnie! Being still a beginner, I totally agree. By the advantage of standard mass produced congas over custom made or used is that you can buy one drum, then add the second to the set, then the third, without waiting many months.

[Jibaro]

Can someone please describe or post a link that describes what "ringing" is?

Obviously something bad from the multitude of posts about it. Appears to be mostly an equipment issue - either the shell or the skin rather than a technique issue, ¿no?

I'd just like to know what people are talking about, be able to recognize it when I hear it, and be able to distinguish it from other problems.

Thanks. No worries, just curious and learning.

[OLSONGO]

Ringing is a too long of an open tone, with an over tone. When you strike the conga, the open tone should sing... but short. In ringing you usually hear a high overtone, different from the natural sound of the drum. This sound you will get in a big drum..head 12,13 inches in diameter with a thin skin, tuned up high. It's predominant in fiber glass drums and high density hard woods as in oak, walnut etc. The sound doesn't get abbsorved as in the softer open grain woods made congas, it bounces in the barrel space causing overtones.

Paz
Olsongo

[OLSONGO]

Vinnie, I know what you are saying and totally agree with us giving better advice to the beginner in making that decision in purchasing a set of drums in the ideal situation which is ... Beginner has the enthusiasm and cash to purchase an entry level set of congas, which run about $ 500.
Now as an instructor, I usually recommend to just purchase 1 drum til they are ready for a second drum and from there on is fundamental technique. An advice offers many variable answers depending on the situation and those are endless, as we can see here on this forum. The advises given here sometimes are not the best, but there is always one that is very helpful...so you go with the one that best fits your needs.

Paz
Olsongo

[bongosnotbombs]

I can agree. The first thing a beginner wants to do is play, and play right now! not learn how to do
carpentry repair. I always try and recommend getting a used Matador in good condition.
Easy to buy, easy to sell. Sound good.

One drum vs. 2 drums. Depends on the music, but if someone is leaning towards
salsa, etc, 2 drums is a good place to start for sure. Of course one drum is fine too
if that is where the budget is at.

Those tumbao pros by Gon Bops are going for so cheap now though, that they seem to be
the way to go. They are much better than LP Aspires and Toca players, beginners should
never by Apires or players. Those drums are not even the correct sizes.

[Chupacabra]

Good topic for sure,
One thought I have is that if the entry level player has no previous background in woodworking or fibreglassing at all, then getting brand new or good as new is definitely the way to go. I've been working with textiles, wood, metals and fibreglass for several years now - professionally and as a hobby and I have to say that when I'm looking at buying anything (drums, cars, furniture, whatever) used and I see a repair job where there has been amateur or poor workmanship I lose interest or get the price down to a more realistic level, which will usually not be acceptable to the seller.
If the new player has good hand skills and the proper tools and supplies at their disposal then go for it! Why not? Not everyone has to be as quite as dedicated to the art of percussion and traditional music as others. I get equal satisfaction from making and repairing instruments for friends as I do in playing and when I give the instrument back I get satisfaction knowing that they will get to enjoy their instrument once again.

My $0.10 worth!

[vinnieL]

Jibaro here is a good example of ringing in a conga just listen to them. This guy gives a good explanation though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QBNFrwwafY

[vinnieL]

BNB you hit the nail on the head that is another reason i feel like they should just get their 2 drums right away so it's done they will be able to learn with one drum at first and still have that second drum to play salsa etc as soon as their ready to do so. One drum to learn on is the way to go but at the same time a lot of people just want to be able to play along to their salsa tunes on the stereo and have fun.

[Facundo1]

VinneL,

Good general advise given. However, we need to understand there are no absolutes. The place any one person starts from can vary greatly. You mentioned that a newbie should not by a fixer upper drum. If the person is mechanically inclined and familiar with working with wood then why not? There is an intimate knowledge that comes from working on your drums. Of course starting out with replacing skins yourself is a different matter. The point is if money is an issue and there is a drum available at very reasonable price and you have the skills then go for it.

The advise given on starter drums is also good but there is a sleeper that is rarely mentioned. That is the "Toca Traditional Series". They are well built instruments, sell at very reasonable price, sound good and will last well into a person's playing career. Beyond that, Toca calling them "traditional" is right on! The tuning hoop is close to the shell as it should be for good tone. The belly is not overly large which gives them a very traditional sound. More over and issue that few pay any attention to is the ratio of head size to opening at the bottom. The Toca Traditional model tend to be a bit smaller at the bottom than all the other massed produced drums. This is very much in keeping with many of the old pre embargo cuban congas. I have been playing for 40 plus years and have had the chance to play a lot of different congas from pre- embargo cuban, mexican Zimgars (absolute trash), Ecco Tone and many of the boutique congas. I have had a lot of drums over the years and have a set of drums that are very special but I have kept my Tocas because they hold their own in every situation.

Another point I would like to comment on is the number of drums one should first buy. If you are drawn to congas because of the folkloric stuff like rumba and bembe them one drum is all you need to get started. On the other hand if band playing is your calling then perhaps two drums may be in order. However, the basics must be mastered on one drum before trying to play two drums. That one drum should be a conga as opposed to quinto or tumba. Learning these tones correctly is the foundation of conga playing. There are adjustments that have to be made with one's hands, given their size, when trying to master these tones on quinto that often lead to bad habits when going to other size drums. Again, learning on a conga it the best place to develop your tones and touch.

Last point that I am sure will raise some eyebrows but I am very firm in the issue. Do not learn on thick heads! First off, think heads choke off the full voice of any given drum. Thin heads tend to give a longer note which is easier to hear for someone new to playing congas. It is also easier to hear when the note is not struck correct. The same hold true for the base, muff and slap tones. The internal adjustments needed to get these tones just right helps to develop muscle memory and proper touch for refining one's technique. While I know there are some on the list that swear by thick heads and I am not contesting their particular taste, I contend thick heads are a mistake for new players. The correct tones are often masked in the thick heads and the subtle adjustments are not properly developed. The point is there is no sense beating up soft hands trying to get the proper sounds on thick heads. I will be happy to talk about this point in detail if need be.

My two cents,
Facundo

[vinnieL]

Facundo i was talking in general for most new players not all. But Im sorry the new person doesn't need fixer uppers at first they need a drum that works whether they can work with wood or not. Why the headache for a beginner of having to fix a drum? As far as the brand of drums I only mentioned a few never said they were the only ones. As far as number of drums well I'm sorry a large percentage of players will not end up even being close to a rumba or may not like rumba ive met some people that just don't like it. Whether they are drawn to or have access to rumba it is 1 genre of music most others Jazz,rock,salsa,timba will require more drums than 1. The rest I'm in agreement with I don't like thick skins myself and if you read my posting again i stated that the beginning is not time to start learning to mount heads etc. But i guess we can start posting like this:
Aspiring conguero Ques: What brand of drums should i be looking at and what sizes?

Congaplace member ans: Do you have carpentry skills?

Hey I think it's ridiculous to encourage a new player to buy a cracked drum or a drum that needs work. From behind the keyboard it's easy to just say JUMP ON IT! you'll save 50 bucks now and spend $100 more later fixing it up. But hey to each his own i won't tell someone out here in cyberworld to do it. Peace I'm out.

[Chupacabra]

"Congaplace member ans: Do you have carpentry skills? "

Please explain what this is supposed to mean.

[vinnieL]

Did you read the question part? According to what some on the forum feel is that cracked drums are ok so i jokingly put up a question from a begginer question: what kind of drum should i get?





Answer from some of our members: Do you have carpentry skills?

meaning cracked drums are ok to buy so i guess we are going to have to starting asking all begginers if they have carpentry skills I'm using sarcasm here

[burke]

In Canada we have reality show called "Canada's worst handiman". I could have been on it.

My crack repair would involve a 2X4, glue and 3 inch spikes

[Facundo1]

VinnieL,

Hey sorry if I offended your view of what a newbie needs and happy to give you a laugh with regard to a newbie fixing a drum they plan to use to learn on. As a matter of fact, "I do have carpentry skills" and when I wrote that I was remembering myself many years ago wanting to play and having to fix a broken shell to get started. It only took a few days to repair the crack and I was up an running in no time flat. Again, I had the skills to do the work as I am sure many do, "yourself not included of course" and saved money I didn't have. This experience gave me a very deep appreciation for the instrument that also influenced my dedication to truly learn how to make music with it. I won't interrupt your laughing to expound on that point any more. Those who have had that experience know exactly what I am saying.

Yes, I won't argue with how many potential players come to congas wanting to do band work as opposed to folkloric rhythms. The underlying point is my saying that the basics are to learned on one drum first. That, is a fact. Additionally, the folkloric rhythms are our "classics" and any conga player that does not have a working foundation in some of them is only a "sound effect specialist". This is especially true with regard to rumba and understanding clave's relationship to rumba. Playing congas in a latin band without this is a travesty. The best congeros playing jazz also have this foundation. Now those playing rock and other styles of music it may not be important to them but a true congero can hear the foundational weakness in their playing, trust me.

On this issue I made about Toca Traditional, I stated that they were a "sleeper" that are often overlooked which, was my only reason for pointing them out. I also have already stated that learning on a conga is very important. See previous post for why. Standard conga head size is 11 3/4 inches and those want or must have a second drum should opt for a tumba 12 1/4 inches in diameter. I thought I did answer your previous questions but I've revisited them again in this post. I was under the impression that you posted to hear the thoughts of others but I guess you thought your post was comprehensive only needed the stamp of agreement.

Glad to hear you are in agreement about think skins. I tried to avoid the fact thinner skins are my personal preference and highlighted why they are wrong for a beginner. I expected rebuttal on that point.

Facundo

Facundo i was talking in general for most new players not all. But Im sorry the new person doesn't need fixer uppers at first they need a drum that works whether they can work with wood or not. Why the headache for a beginner of having to fix a drum? As far as the brand of drums I only mentioned a few never said they were the only ones. As far as number of drums well I'm sorry a large percentage of players will not end up even being close to a rumba or may not like rumba ive met some people that just don't like it. Whether they are drawn to or have access to rumba it is 1 genre of music most others Jazz,rock,salsa,timba will require more drums than 1. The rest I'm in agreement with I don't like thick skins myself and if you read my posting again i stated that the beginning is not time to start learning to mount heads etc. But i guess we can start posting like this:
Aspiring conguero Ques: What brand of drums should i be looking at and what sizes?

Congaplace member ans: Do you have carpentry skills?

Hey I think it's ridiculous to encourage a new player to buy a cracked drum or a drum that needs work. From behind the keyboard it's easy to just say JUMP ON IT! you'll save 50 bucks now and spend $100 more later fixing it up. But hey to each his own i won't tell someone out here in cyberworld to do it. Peace I'm out.