Pioneers on Afro and Caribbean Percussion

[zaragemca]

This re percussionists which are Pioneers within the Afro,and Caribbean Percussion...Candido Camero,(the firts to introduced a third Conga in an open TV show in the U.S...Chano PozoHistoric recording of Congas in to Jazz with Dizzy Guilespie(setting a pattern which was followed by other Congeros...Mongo Santamaria,(Introduction of the Yorubas-Patterns in to Jazz and Blue(Afro-Jazz),and also introducing the congas in to Brazilian Music.(50's)...Patato Valdez,(entering in collaboration with a major corporation(LP),for the development of Cuban Percussion...Francisco Aguabella,(introduction of the Bata in to general music in the U.S.)...Armando Peraza,(introduction of Congas for the fusion of the Afro-Cuban-Rock in the U.S.(Santana Band)...Tata Guines,(developer of advanced technique in to Conga playing,the firts to play with up to 7 Congas)...Pello(Pedro) El Afrocan,(introduction and disemination of the Mozambique Rhythms)...



Edited By zaragemca on 1076536990

[zaragemca]

"Cont...to the post"...Lazaro Alfonso,(the introduction of up to 5 congas to an Afro-Cuban Jazz Band(Irakere Band)...Munequitos de Matanzas,(taking the Guaguanco to the whole world through recording and tours)...Los Papines,( taking the Guaguanco to a higher level of performanship)...Gerry Zaragemca,(incorporation of the Djembe for soloing in to guaguanco,Rumba and Yoruba Patterns),(syncronization of 4 differents Bell's patterns in to Samba),(creation of a drumming pattern for Samba,which is played by holding three differents time-signatures,5/4-6/8-4/4),(introduction of the Congas and Djembe in to Ethiopian Music...Billy Cohbam,(introduction of a Drum-Set to African Tribes Music...Tito Puente,(introduction of the Vibrophono in to Cuban Music,and taking the Timbal playing to new stages.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076617441

[Johnny Conga]

Interesting but you left out 3 people Tito Puente -who took the percussion section and moved it to the front of the stage. And the one and only Changuito with his "mano secreto" and last but not least the "innovator" on congas himself....Giovanni Hidalgo.....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....AND THERE ARE MANY MORE WE DO NOT KNOW ABOUT. :;):

[rumbaman]

Thank you this great information on these great percussionists . Awesome

[Raymond]

I've read in some books that the mozambique pattern used by most "salsa" percussionists in Manny Oquendo's variation of Pello el Afrocan's version while with Eddie Palmieri's La Perfecta in the 60s.

Also, in regards to "trends", you have to give Nicky Marrero,the salsa timbalero, in bringing into salsa the use of snares, tom-toms and bass drum....

Saludos!

[zaragemca]

First of all thanks to all the brothers which participate with the valuables comments.Brother Johnny,there is not question that Tito Puente was a great Timbalero,but he was not the first one to introduce the Timbales,also since the time of the Danson,the Timbales have been in the front of the stage,(if you listen to the Baqueteo in the Danson,you could feel that the Timbal is the one holding the pulse of the Rhythms,the same in Cha-cha,etc,etc,etc.I think I already said one time before that the creator of the Mano-Secreta technique and many others was Tata Guines(this, before my brother Changito was even playing with Los Van Van.(I did witness Tata Guines solos several times when I was there...Brother Raymond,in the 60's was when Pello did create
the Mozambique(as a matter of fact I even got to know 'Nico',which was Pello's lead Congero,and I could tell you that we didn't have any influence from NY. not body new what was going on there.Also you are talking about the use of snare and Tom-Tom,and Bass drum,well that was exactly what Changuito did with Los Van Van in the 70's(which after that time was called Songo)...Johnny, Giovanni Hidalgo is a great percussionist,...but explain me which is the innovation?.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076606767

[Raymond]

Zaramgenca,

I am just relating what I read (regarding Manny Oquendo's Mozambique beats). Agree...Changuito was a pioneer in the use of addiitional "pheripherals" for the timbalero. The problem with Changuito's contribution isi that it went unnoticed to some of us because during the 70/80s "native" Cuban music did not get much exposure because the New York/Puerto Rico salsa boom was going..... (Later I learned about Changuito.....). Nicky Marrero was the first to try some of those things...maybe from Changuito..

Believe it or not, I hate the arguments about who did what because in most instances there are two versions...Although I do not get "offended" when I am "supposedly corrected", some people do....There is always more than one version to the same story....

Saludos!

[Johnny Conga]

Giovanni's innovation is taking rudiments and tabla patterns and putting it all together on congas,and advancing the conga to a higher level of playing. I did not say Puente "introduced" the timbales < I said he took the instruments of the rhythm section and brought them to the front of the stage. Before they were always behind the horn section. Also the first to use snare,and bass drum with timbales here in America was Ubaldo Nieto drummer for Machitos band and my first timbal teacher. Nicky Marrero wasn't even born yet. There was a percussionist back in the early 70's who backed up Bobby Darin, he played 7 congas. There is also a brother from Chicago named "Big BLacK" who also played 7 congas back in the 50's and 60's......Not every innovation came from Cuba....there were guys here innovating , just not known to anybody......At your Service.....JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[zaragemca]

Ok,I could see what you mean now,but I don't think that what Tito did was an Innovation,he was the leader of the Band and he wanted to be at front(but that is not an innovation in the music itself).In relation to snare and bass-drum with Timbales,it was used around here(at that time of the Danson) by the Timbaleros also,the bass-drum for accentuation,and the snare to play Paso-Doble(Spanish-Rhythms),and Tango which also was played in private parties and Clubs.(I thought they were talking of replacing the Timbales with the drum-Set.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076615254

[Johnny Conga]

Once again Tito brought many innovations as far as doing the first all percussion albums "Top Percussion" Puente in Percussion" displaying Afro-Cuban rhythms. Tito also played 13 instruments and studied at Julliard in New York City. Before he went to Cuba he played Alto sax. It was when he went to Cuba and saw a timbalero who had his own club and his show consisted of timbales that had lights on them and he danced and soloed and that suppossedly is how Tito was influenced, at this time he was just out of the Navy and wanted to check out Cuba. As quite a few musicians did in those days, and the Cubans went to NY city .So there was lot of musical exchanges and influences back then. I do not take anything away from the Cuban Masters cause they basically created it all and have consistently shown the world how, that they are innovators and continue to do so.....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[zaragemca]

Ok Johnny,help me out what is the Afro-Cuban Rhythms which you said it was involved in the recording,when the recording was set up.(playing others instruments and going to school to learn music is not an innovation).But I knew that Tito went to school and also served in the military.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076615829

[zaragemca]

I would like to know also who set up 7 Congas in the (50's),if it was in the 70's at that time it was already done by Tata Guines.

[Johnny Conga]

How about Tito playing Vibrophono with a latin band.? Nobody did it before him. He played piano,all horns,all percussion. For that time(era) to be able to do all that was innovating. You never heard "Top Percussion" or "Puente in Percussion" , with Patato, Julito collazo, Mongo Santamaria and Willie Bobo, and Mercedita Valdes ??? Bro if you haven't go online and get them they are classic. on the TICO label, circa 1957.....Top Percussion was recorded in one session in one day. Here are some of the tunes from Top Perc. "Elequana" Obatala Yeza,Obaricoso, Conga Alegre. Puente in Percussion is just an outright Jam/Descarga type album, lots of timbale and conga soloing. Another hard to find is Tito's TAMBO on RCA which I have also Where he Orchestrates Afro-Cuban rhythms with a big band. Nothing really new Cause Chico O'Farill had also done that but wasn't known in the States at the time....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Johnny Conga]

The man I said played 7 congas in the 50's and 60's was named "Big Black" who was from Chicago I believe. He has recordings with different Jazz musicians. He was not a "typico" player , he was very "avantgarde" in his approach , even using fingernails, way before we ever saw Tata do it. I am speaking from the American perspective cause I grew up in NY city during the 50's and 60's. I have also been somewhat of a historian on American conga drummers over the years and know a lot about many of them, that people have never heard of....JC JOHNNY CONGA.... :;):

[zaragemca]

Playing piano is not an innovation playing Vibrophone is.Orquestration is not an innovation that's why I didn't get any one here(that could be a subject for another forum).Ok I place Tito in the original as Vibrophono player in Cuban Music.In the recording you are mentioning the name of the songs but what I wants to know is what type of rhythms is played.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076617708