Pioneers on Afro and Caribbean Percussion

[zaragemca]

I do agree with you RitmoBoricua,but I don't try to be exclusive in this,I already said to brother Johnny,that is somebody think there is something in relation to innovation and have all the documentation,name etc for it,they could come with it(but accurate,not the followers).Also in the Drumming and Percussion field there are techniques which have differents names at differents locations(even in the same country),which sometimes create confusion in relation to the technique and to who was the first to use it.But of course innovators,or not, we have to give credits to all percussionists which have keep the flame of the music and the instruments which we use for the performance of it.



Edited By zaragemca on 1077124822

[RitmoBoricua]

I do agree with you RitmoBoricua,but I don't try to be exclusive in this,I already said to brother Johnny,that is somebody think there is something in relation to innovation and have all the documentation,name etc for it,they could come with it(but accurate,not the followers).Also in the Drumming and Percussion field there are techniques which have differents names at differents locations(even in the same country),which sometimes create confusion in relation to the technique and to who was the first to use it.

I know that sometimes the big names have taken credit for something that one of their sidemen or colleagues of lesser stature came-up with. It happened.

[zaragemca]

I know it happened sometimes,that's why I don't post anything I could not back up with names,dates,places,etc.,I don't want to be unfair with anybody.

[zaragemca]

I just conducted a presentation yesterday at the Univ. of Houston in relation to this topic and Drumming Patterns (From Africa to Cuba).Black History Month.



Edited By zaragemca on 1077998246

[zaragemca]

On this subject I need to establish which one played Djembe in Jazz-Music first, Mor thiam(Senegal),or, Alhaji Camara(Ivory Coast).Mor Thiam came to the U.S., in 1968 and Camara came before,They both have played with Jazz player.Also 'Babatunde', came before both of them,(1959)but being a Nigerian have less influence in playing Djembe(becouse the culture).



Edited By zaragemca on 1078452916

[franc]

i have to take my hat off to you guys, J.C, RAYMOND, ZARAGMCA, AND OTHERS. you guys can write a book about salsa, cuban son , musicians , percusionists and so fore. i have learned a lot with you guys. keep the good work ok!! ACHE!!! TO YOU ALL IN THE FORUM!!! i have been blessed with you all in the forum. thanks a lot. my best!!! , franc

[Doctorumba]

When we speak of innovators in Cuban music I think of Arsenio,El Ciego Maravilloso,who incorpotated the tumbadora in a Cojunto format in 1939,Chocolate was his first tumbador in his first orchestra and Mongo was the other tumbador in the second orchestra,Arsenio keept 2 conjuntos simulteneously.Innovator "en la Paila" (timbales) Chorizera (El Chori) he used to play paila,tympani and snare all together and at the same time in "La Playa De Marianao" from the early 40's until he died in the 60's.Innovator in the tumbas,Patato,who started playing 3 congas with Conjunto Casino as early as 1951 in Cuban television.Innovator en el bongo Yeyito Iglesias (El Bisco) who was right handed but played lefty and keept a qiunto next to him and accentuated the quinto in the "martillo" pattern.Innovator in Latin Jazz,Mongo (mi papa'),who brought the chequere,bata, tambor yuka,along with the congas and bongo to a Latin Jazz band back in the early 60's,way before Irakere ever existed. Moforibale al tambo'! Saludos, Dario

[zaragemca]

Welcome DoctocRumba,I'm awared of what you mentioned in here,but what I did was to point out of those percussionists which did something after comming to the U.S.(to be fair with the rest of the forum-members becouse it is something which they could corroborate easier,than what happenned in Cuba before).Many of the subjects you point out(in Cuba) even when could be true it is hard for the rest of the people outside of Cuba to be able to corroborate,which is the reasons I stayed out of it.In relation to Mongo he is there, by the way(it was in the 50's,not the 60's when Mongo introduce the Yoruba-Instruments.In relation to Chori,I already said that some Timbaleros in Cuba also would have snare-drums(I have to do it myself several times).



Edited By zaragemca on 1079805963

[Johnny Conga]

Trust me Zaragemca.....Doctor Rumba es un Socio mio,he doesn't need corroboration,he KNOWS. Tell it like it is Dario!...Como ta todo,brother?....tu pana JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[Johnny Conga]

Actually Zaragemca I believe that "Guy Warren" was the first to use a jimbe in jazz back in the early 50's before he moved to Africa for good.......JC JOHNNY CONGA....and that can be corroborated........JC JOHNNY CONGA............

[zaragemca]

I'm not talking for me JC.I know that stuff,but in my posting I put the enfasis in the U.S. for the advantage of the other people which would have easy access to what I was talking about.In relation to Guy Warren try to locate the dates and which whom so we can set up that subject,Thanks JC and Dotocrumba.



Edited By zaragemca on 1079802778

[Johnny Conga]

Guy Warren was was really known for his "talking drum" work but played jimbe and congas as well. He recorded in the mid 50's.He recorded on RCA. One of 2 albums I have are The Guy Warren Sounds-African Drums. He played the "African Room" in Harlem for many years before moving to Africa. Also Ladji Camara of the Camara family may have been the first in NYC to play along with some jazz cats, there. MY first Jimbe teacher "Ritchie Pablo Landrum" definetly played jimbe in jazz as well as perform with Olatunji drummers and dancers,back in the late 50's early 60's. He recorded with Count Basie and others with jimbe and congas in jazz. JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[changolaye]

well im a go real back on this one man give credit where its realy due forget all these jokers man on the bata aspect andres sublime roche and son pablo roche great bataleros that if it wasent for them we wouldent play the batas the way we play em 2day also jesus perez also the late pancho quinto inovater of the cajones tata guines, anga, changuito cause thas where giovanni got all his skills from and fliped it so those the manz right there 4get these other jokers an many mores that i cant remember now

[davidpenalosa]

Hi guys,
I didn't see this mentioned; Tito Puente was an innovator on the timbales. He incorporated the improvisational language of quinto and drum rudiments into timbale solos.

-David

[zaragemca]

Greeting, David,remenber that I teach Afrocuban Percussion,the improvisational lead ,(or languages),in the Timbales was already set up in Cuba,before Tito Puente was born.What is the drum rudiments which you are talking about?. Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1119302174