Reading Slaps - Which slap is which

[otto]

Hi all
I am here again seeking knowledge
My current question concerns slaps how they are done and how to know which slap is which when ready the charts or notations.
For example when doing a basic tumbao the slap is done with the right hand with the left hand fingers down,
HTSTHTOO
the slap is muted with the left hand still in the Toe position which produces a different sound than when an open slap.

I can see why in the tumbao the slap is or sound sharper
and it makes sense
but when i go for example to the conga book and download the charts on some rhythms there is no clear difference as to which slap is used and in most cases there is no audio file where I can here it.
So do I assume its muted if that is the proper term or that its open.

The other part of the question is how to execute the slap
I have acquired some tapes and in some cases the instruction shows the slap as cupping the fingers in on the skin
and in other examples; such as the Kalani tapes its a straight
hand with the finger tips whipping down on the skins.
Is it a matter of prefence I find the Kalani easier for me and fits better into my practices.

JC. Tonio, Raymond and others what do you say about this.
again many thanks in advance for all your help.

Thankfully yours
Otto

[James M]

There are a variety of slaps and whatever slap you choose to develop will be your choice (or maybe your teacher's). My most effective slap is to use the middle, ring and pinky from the middle joint to the tips about half to three quarters to the middle of the conga, muted with the other hand or no. I also slap closer to the edge if it means a smoother transition to another stroke (I believe this is the cuban style?) Cupping the hands is probably to preserve hand position for open tones in keeping motions to a minimum. The type of slap, and thus the tone produced, is open to musical interpretation.

[Johnny Conga]

In a previous post I had mentioned that there were 3 types of slaps for the conga-open(slapping without sticking to skin)-closed with left hand on head= and bata slap(top center of head,slap with left hand open,(using pinky,ring and middle finger for the slap)... Does this help?.....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[kinoconga]

Otto:

The slap I begin with & still use the most is the one with the slightly cupped hand with the palm inside the drum near its edge. Now, there appears to be many other ways of playing it.
I remember seeing in one of Giovanni Hidalgo's videos, him playing the slap well inside the conga, possible all his hand was inside (Gio, can play anyhting, anyplace). I also remember palying along with a group of friends, and one of the conguero's pick my attention for the sharp slaps, and he was playing them just on the border of the drum with his fingers.

I believe that the position in the drum were some of the strokes are played, is also affected by the speed of the rythm and the type of stroke being played. Ex: I learned from one of my instruction books, that on some realtively fast rythms, playing the bass stroke near the edge, allows for a faster transition to the next stroke, without sacrifing much the quality of the stroke sound itself.

Like Jame M said, lets not forget the musical part of it. If it sounds good, chances are we are close to the correct technique.

No substitute for listening to as much music as possible, particularly for those rythms & strokes under study & development.

My two cents!

Saludos,

KinoConga

[Raymond]

JC provided a more in depth info about slaps but in my understanding the basic tumbao what is called the slap, is the third hit or the S (in your chart) and is the only time, in the basic tumbao, you will have to do it.

The other "hits", besides heel and finger tips, is just regular hits. (Correct me if I am wrong JC but what you are mentioning, besides the slap of the basic "machaca" or tumbao, are those used for "quinteo/soloing" or "effects")

I hope this helps!

Saludos!

[otto]

Hi All
Again I thank all who responded
Like always great info.
As I stated when reading charts where I don't have any audio example of the rhythm How do I know if the slap is muted with the T(toe) of the left if slaping with the right or is it an open slap
I try it both ways but not sure which is correct for that particular rhythm.
I may need more practice with the open slap. I find now with using the oppsite hand with a T(toe) that I don't need mush power or force to get a good sharp sound out. (using Kalani's Slap method).
thanks for the continuing help
Otto

[congastu]

Hi Otto
I agree that its not always clear from reading whether to use a closed or open slap. However, in general, slaps are more likely to be open [especially if they have roots in Djembe or timbau patterns where the closed is rarely used, or if the tempo is quite fast, or there is a hand to hand movement]. It is more common to find closed slaps in rhythms that are rooted in the basic tumbao, or that follow the drum kit quite closely so that you are in effect echoing the rim shot of the snare. Sometimes, in this last example, you might even want to mix and match to find out what you like best.
As far as execution goes, I agree with James that how you play the slap can be influenced by the rhythm- ie, tempo, dynamics and hand movement. In general though, I think that Kalani movement you describe [I havent seen the videos] is a good road to go down as it economises the amount of movement you make from stroke to stroke.
I do like the cupping style for some patterns- it can produce a lovely tone- but Ive heard from older players that it can lead to joint problems later in life and is even discouraged by some teachers for that reason. I dont really know if thats true or not , though.
Overall, I think a good equation could be maximum power from minimum effort [ a good slap shouldnt have to involve either excessive arm movement or wrist rotation].
Heres some single stroke roll variations which are good for getting that distinction in tone while maintaining relaxation at speed. Try starting with either hand and begin slowly.

OOXXOOXXOOXXOOXX
OOOXXXOOOXXX
OOOOXXXXOOOOXXXX

Or this coordination exercise
O.XX.OO.XX.OOetc
r r l l r r l l r

Hope this is helpful
peace and love
stu

[James M]

http://www.gmi.edu/~drussell/Demos/MembraneCircle/Circle.html

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/music/cirmem.html

http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm

http://www.drumdojo.com/learning/congaintro1.htm

[Tonio]

I think the previous posts pretty much covers it.
IMO when doing a tumbao, the h-t strokes previous to a slap-means its an muted slap. But there is obvious considerations of tempo and differing patterns tumbao included.e.g. if its a fast mambo where you would move to the segun after the slap it may be easier to do a open slap instead. Some pro congueros even do 2 open slaps(instead of h-t) then move to segun. I think its a matter of style also. open slaps instead of muted ones also creates a differnt feel-push also. Listen to Luis Conte, he plays alot of open slaps, Paulinho Da Costa rarely uses muted slaps at all-but that's his "style" maybe due to being Brazilian-I don't think there is much muted slaps in brazilian congas-atabaq. I can understand your frustration.
And James had the cuban style right-the slapping hand is really close to the edge(rim) which makes a higher pitch.
Open slaps are the hardest IMO, but they are needed alot-mostly for soloing etc..
A good way to practice is doing all notes on 1 drum while alternating hands:
o o b b t t h h s s
l r l r l r l r l r start slow,then increase the speed.
It will help in getting the notes. Sure slaps are hard, but executing all notes properly makes or brakes a good conguero.

then try just the heel toes, and heel heel toe toe.

When it comes to open slaps, I don't cup may hands as much now compared to when I started out. PLus I use all my fingers, especially on muted slaps.
Just remember you don't have to go by what media you are learning from, as long as the strokes are accomplished sounding right to the genre and style you are involed in. Half the battle (later on) is fitting in with the band. e.g. your in a progressive band, you don't always want to play traditional style and you don't always want to play progressive in a traditional setting. But don't let that get you confused, learn traditionally, get the basics down good, and as you develop your skills, get creative, try new things, come up with your own style.But remember your basics, always go back to them.

Hope that helps

T

[Simon B]

Quick poll - how many people on the forum regularly use the so-called Cuban slap as defined by Tonio in the previous post, i.e. towards the rim for the higher sound?

Simon B

[James M]

It depends on the conga for me. With my quinto I use the rim slap because I play it on rubber feet and anywhere else, the bass will tenddominate over the slap. On my conga, I'll use both styles, however rim slaps have to be muted because the overtones from the fiber skin head ring out otherwise.



Edited By James M on 1081128291

[mangorockfish]

Quick poll - how many people on the forum regularly use the so-called Cuban slap as defined by Tonio in the previous post, i.e. towards the rim for the higher sound?

Simon B

I tend to use the closed slap MOST of the time, but sometimes use the open slap. I do them on the rim and also at about the 2 o'clock position, which might be a variation of the bata slap.:blues:

[James M]

I just stumbled upon a technique in the congabook. Check out Timba#2.

The first bar is a variation on H T S T H T S T. It uses slaps in the left hand from the heel position.


<span style='font-family:courier'>|H S S T H S T S |. . S . . S T O |
|. . . . . . . . |O O . O O . . . |
L L R L L L R L R R L R R L R R</span>



Edited By James M on 1081131472

[tamboricua]

E.N.A. professor José Eladio developed a percussion notation system a while back, in which he uses a fixed specific symbol for each of the tumbadora strokes to be executed. In this way, only the sticking or handing is notated below the notes. Also Kevin Moore, one of the authors of the recently published Tomás Cruz Conga Methods, did something very similar. Kevin used a regular x to notate open slaps, and circled x to indicate the closed slaps. Check out Tomás Cruz Methods on Mel Bay Publications.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1081196557

[kinoconga]

James M:

Here is a question for the masters.

On the pattern that you mention stumbling, why the part can not start by alternating RLRLRLRL for the first phrase then continuing as normal at the beginning of the second phrase ending as follows ......RL.

In this way we avoid the harder heel to slap transition with the same hand in the first phrase, while keeping the rigth hand available for the open tones on the second phrase.

Any particular reason for the slaps in the first phrase to be played from the heel position, other than maybe time value of notes? This pattern looks to be composed of 8 - 1/8 notes on each phrase. Is this assumption correct?

Sincerely;

KinoConga