Doubles-strokes again - Doubles as coming from heel-toe motion

[Johnny Conga]

I also want to say that rudiments aren't the end all of playing congas. Styles and Rhythms are where it's really at. If you know your rudiments it's a plus. If you know how to incorporate them in a solo , now your talkin. As long as it's still in clave, remember that too.....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[Tonio]

Talk about small hands-Armando has the smallest ones I've seen.
I agree JC, rudiments are the "style" Gio and Richie is known for. IMO sometimes I don't like it, its more of showing of technique, not feeling. But it is great trick!!

T

[RayBoogie]

I'm with you Tonio. It's a fantastic trick, but like you said "no feeling". I love Gio as a conguero (he has the whole package), but Richie Flores has a problem staying in the pocket. Still to this day, I haven't seen Richie do a basic Tumbao for more than a couple of minutes without shooting off the machine gun (if you understand what I mean). Don't get me wrong, Richie Flores is a fantastic conguero, if your into a solo happy drummer. I personally prefer hearing someone that plays in the pocket with riffs here and there or melodic congueros (e.g. Carlos "Patato" Valdez). Just my 2 cents.

[Simon B]

As you suggest Ray, with Gio you do notice that in ensemble situations he is perfectly content to groove on the rhythms, and sit there totally 'in the pocket' until a solo is asked for! Interesting what you say about Richie Flores. I remember listening to his quinto work on 'Deep Rumba'. Now I know this is not meant to be traditional in its rumba sound, but after a few minutes of break-neck thirty-second note soloing I was desperate to hear some more simple and earthy quinto licks.

Simon B

[RayBoogie]

Hey Simon, I hope all is well. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Theirs this show here in NY called "LATIN JAZZ ALIVE AND KICKING", I actually seen this one cat play congas, a basic Tumbao with a really nice groove then when it was time to solo, Richie replaces this cat and does his 350 mile per hour solo. Again, I'm not hating on Richie because without a doubt he's a great conguero (not to mention a PEARL endorser). I would just love to see him just groove more and solo less.

[Tonio]

Ray , I didn't know about the pocket issue with Richie. He is 'out there' on anything I've seen/heard of him. Not criticising in a bad way, but yeah he could use some toning down ?
I do like his stuff with David Sanchez and CJP(Caribean Jazz Project). I've got a video of him backing up for J. Gonzalez' video.. he couldn't wait to put some filler/riff in a instructional video LOL.
Hey he'll be a monster when he's done "showing off".
What still gets me is the solo between Raul and Franscisco on Malo's- Dos

T

[Tonio]

As you suggest Ray, with Gio you do notice that in ensemble situations he is perfectly content to groove on the rhythms, and sit there totally 'in the pocket' until a solo is asked for! Interesting what you say about Richie Flores. I remember listening to his quinto work on 'Deep Rumba'. Now I know this is not meant to be traditional in its rumba sound, but after a few minutes of break-neck thirty-second note soloing I was desperate to hear some more simple and earthy quinto licks.

Simon B

I agree Simon, that's what I like about Gio-flavorful, yet powerfull (when needed)!! e.g. Sonero de Bailadores!!

T

[Simon B]

Maybe part of the plot for Richie is that, since Gio arrived before him as the revolutionary technique player, Richie has to try and define himself against him - show the world that his technique can stand up too. Sorry for this amateur psychology but I did wonder.

Simon B

[Simon B]

Well I've been practising the doubles as much as I've been able to over the past month. One thing I've enjoyed doing is applying the palm-tip roll on the edge of the head to get an open tone followed by a strike from the tip. This seems like another type of double to me. Unfortunately, whilst I can do these as quick as my normal palm-tip rolls on the middle, I can't at speed get an open tone out of the second stroke to make a 'proper' double! Still - another effect available. Does this make sense?

Simon

[Tonio]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong , but I think aas long as the open tone and tip is stroked by the same hand , it would be a
double.
But I know what you're saying. Yeah start incorporating different stuff with the heel toes is cool, nice warm up , and its good for solos etc..

T

[zaragemca]

The double stroke would have different configuration in relation of the parameter used,where you place your hands in relation to the surface,(double strokes could be done with two hands also).In relation to solos,I have witnessed some congeros with put emphasys in the multyplication of the notes in the quinto,without that much articulation of the syncopation,contra-syncopation,odd-strokes,and the articulation of assimetric-parameters which is the ultimate stages of dominating the characterictics of solos in those drumming jams.Ultimately that was the research which took me to incorporate the Djembe which gave me another resource which I could never obtain with the Quinto.



Edited By zaragemca on 1085600537

[Johnny Conga]

Zaragemca..could u please put it in "laymens' terms as there are members here I know, do not know what your talking about...Gracias...JCJOHNNY CONGA....PS..even I am having a hard time..but I hear what ur saying.... :;):

[zaragemca]

Saludos JC.,sorry, on any term the brothers could question,I would explain.

[Colacao]

Ultimately that was the research which took me to incorporate the Djembe which gave me another resource which I could never obtain with the Quinto.

Hi Zaragemca,

No comprendo todo...

Can you explain me how you introduced Djembé into your quinto playing ?

please with simple words

Gracias

[martin]

He showed me what he said was the established method in Cuba and suggested that I practise it regularly for a couple of months, then evaluate this method as compared to my own (he was of the firm belief that there was nothing wrong with using your own method if you found it superior in tone and efficiency than the established route, but that you need to have tried the 'way' so as to be able to compare).

hey - simon

Have you had time to try the new technique out? how do you feel about it now?

martin