meinl Marathon series

[blavonski]

If I had not bent the self-made backing plates with my delicate Gon Bops mahogany conga shells, e.g., there would have been
dents and cracks for sure.
OK, the compression might not be as strong with bongó, but I still wonder why you want to expose your Meinl
unnecessarily to a risk
BTW any serious manufacturer of quality bongos supplies a very snugly-seating curved plate or at least oversized washers that are bent.

Hello Mike,
The points you make are well taken by me, but given that they are based on what might happen and not on what you have directly experienced with regards to this type of crack and repair as well as this particular plate/bolt set up; I can only take it as a well considered and intended opinion...which I appreciate. Try to imagine what I wrote in terms of a Beam and Post construction, (Plate is beam & Sides of Block are Posts) and the compression representing a load.
If you look at your bongó standing on end, you might be able to imagine what I mean here.


As I understand it, the metal plates on a Conga perform a different function than on the Bongó. With the conga, it's shell is directly sandwiched, compressed between two Plates to resist tension when tightening the heads. But, because the Bongo is made by joining two sepparat drums, (If there is a Plate), the compression is transfered from one plate, through the Shell, through the Block, to the other shell and to other plate to hold them tightly in place. But, as Leedy mentioned before, the bolt/washer against the wood has proven suffcient if kept tight to resist stress/strain in the hole area.
However, due to the fortunate, I hope, coincidence of the holes in this strap as well as the with of it matching that of the center block, and because I wanted to avoid direct pressure on the crack in this already most vulnerable part of the shell, I diceded to use it. It was also convenient not to have to make one myself. I hope my theory works out!

With such a small/narrow area (4mm) to bend, that Plate is too thick to bend length wise with a hammer; at least not accurately. Even if I had a strong enough bench vise, I think I would run the risk of warping the plate through hammering.
Also, I don't know if the plates on the Headliner series that my friend gave me, (which are much thinner), are pre-bent or not. But, by looking at them, they appear to have not been formed on a Metal Break, (they don't really match the contour of the Staves), but slightly bent as a result of tightening... Just my intuition.

Thanks for the tip,I'll check online to see if I can find any plates matching my Bongó

[Psych1]

i can't decide who I agree wih here. interesting issue because that is where so many bongos crack. anyone else have thoughts on this?

[blavonski]

i can't decide who I agree wih here. interesting issue because that is where so many bongos crack. anyone else have thoughts on this?

Psych1,
I've been playing my Bongos everyday now since I repaired them and everything is fine. So, you can agree with me until they utterly destruct. ...Oooops, I just heard a sound, really , as I'm writing;Whew! It was only the skins moving, and they're only finger tight. That brings me to a coupla question's I have regarding the skins on these, (see foto).

1. Can anyone shed light on why the skins look like that, with the dark and the light areas; and is it an easy remedy, for aucustic reasons)if neccessary?
The macho is smooth over all on top, but the underside is a little rough where it is light. The light areas on the Hembra, however are a little rough on top...feels like a callas and it is slightly elevated when I run my fingers over it.

2. Yesterday, while practicing, I sat the Bongo aside to play my horn and about 15 minutes later, I heard the same sound that I just heard a minute ago. I thought it was the shell, but it was the skin moving, and it made another, lesser sound when i picked them up.
I brought to my room, which is in the basement of a building with only ventilation system for air coming and going, no windows. Were the skins adjusting to the humidity in the room, and or was 15 minutes to long to leave them tuned up without playing; or are they simply breaking in?
As I mentioned in my first post, they appear to have only slightly been played and one revolution for tightening when in my apartment is just fine; I went to two revolutions in my room due to acustics there.

Any & all shared wisdoms are most appreciated, thanks!

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[blavonski]

Leedy,
Ok, thanks!!
...will definately keep em loose when not playing.
It's been wacky weather here in Berlin the last few weeks...rainy and humid, warm, then sunny and cool.

So, does the weather issue factor in when playing?
And what's recommended when playing outside and it's real sunny and hot?

Thanks!

[salcero1]

Blavonski,
I can only speak from my experience. Are the skins on the bongo new? If so the creaking sounds you hear may well be the skins sort of "breaking in" to the tension being exerted by the tuning lugs being this is the first time they are under high tuning. I have a pair of bongos made for me this year by Jay Bereck from SOS percussion and I had that creaking sound after I de-tuned the bongos. Working bongoceros on a gig would play for 3-4 hrs or more and the bongos would remain tightened throughout the evenings performance. One good rule of thumb is whenever you're finished giging, practicing or in a recording studio session always detune the skins to alleviate stress on the shells and the over stretching of the natural heads. As for the discoloration of the heads they're fine. Remember this is a natural animal product. The playing surface should be smooth and the underside rough. This is how the tanneries manufacture the hides for market. I included a topside image of my SOS so that you could see the similarities in the bongo heads. I hope this helps, Peace.

Jorge

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[blavonski]

Thanks for the tips fella's...definately appreciate it!

I do believe that the skins are new, that is, I don't think the instrument itself is new,(can't find out how old it is exactly ), but the the skins appeared not to have ever been stretched for any real playing. If it hadn't been for the crack and dust, it would have looked like it came right off the store shelf. So, from what you write, i'm inclined to accept that they're breaking in... we'll be breakin' each other in I suppose. I'm real glad, I got these Bongos, they feel like a real instrument compared to the Meinl Headliner series.
And Leedy, as far as practicing too long. I hear you on that. I've broken my practice time down to 1,5 hours. with two breaks. I think I practiced too long in the beginning and th joints in my fingers were feeling it, but it's cool now. I went and got some liquid nitrogen injections...just kidding.

I know the Bongó is to be tuned high. But one of the things i really dig about the instrumen is that, it can be tuned real low and that, at least for me, suggest other types of rhythms and tonal colors. It's like that with different thickness saxophone reeds, the sound and feel effects how and what one plays. I actually am atracted to the middle-high, for lack of a better term, Bongo sound, rather than the very high/tight, thin sound. I also noticed that I had to adjust the tuning to accomadate different song harmonies and keys a few times... Just recorded music at this point. That was hip and fun!

Also, is there a standard size stick to use for playing the Bongo bell? I just have an old 7 inch bell from a drum kit and have been using a cut off drimstick, but the sound is terrible, and I've seen different sizes on various fotos.

Thanks again, Mucho Gracias!!

[skinslapper]

Blavonski wrote: I was wondering if the the gap, between the bottom rim and the shell is the main culprit here?

It dous not as all the pressure go's upwards .
But if that bothers you than you can cut a strip of gaffer tape, tape it around the lower rim space and cut to size .

And i to think that your self made shell plates are a danger to your bongo's.
It will hurt your bongo's in the long run , but , it's your bongo's .... so .....

Nice bongo's , by the way !

[blavonski]

Blavonski wrote: I was wondering if the the gap, between the bottom rim and the shell is the main culprit here?

It dous not as all the pressure go's upwards .
But if that bothers you than you can cut a strip of gaffer tape, tape it around the lower rim space and cut to size .

And i to think that your self made shell plates are a danger to your bongo's.
It will hurt your bongo's in the long run , but , it's your bongo's .... so .....

Nice bongo's , by the way !

Hello Skinslapper,
thanks for the tip, but I've left hoop space as it was and have forgotten about it...not a problem. They are nice Bongos, I enjoy playing them, thanks. And, I've gotten to the point of the skins breaking in, I think, and they're sounding good to me at this point; so, I probably won't be changing them any time soon.

As far as the metal plate...what do you mean exactly by hurting the Bongos in the long run?
Someone else here also expressed similar concern and predicted imminent destruction. However, I'm to report that it's been over 3 months now of 5 days a week with at least an hour a day of playing them with the new plates and they have shown no signs of loosening at all. I 've only given the bolts a miscule tweak, twice in this time and the shells and repaired cracks are both fine.

I hope all continues in this grain.

Good Vibrations,
Blavonski

[Mike]

And i to think that your self made shell plates are a danger to your bongo's.
It will hurt your bongo's in the long run , but , it's your bongo's .... so .....

As far as the metal plate...what do you mean exactly by hurting the Bongos in the long run?
Someone else here also expressed similar concern and predicted imminent destruction. However, I'm to report that it's been over 3 months now of 5 days a week with at least an hour a day of playing them with the new plates and they have shown no signs of loosening at all. I 've only given the bolts a miscule tweak, twice in this time and the shells and repaired cracks are both fine.

I was the one who gave you the advice before, because there is the danger that the plate might grind its way into the wood
and thus cause harm in the shells. You might need to fasten the bolts connecting the macho and hembra shell again in a couple
of weeks, otherwise you will risk rattling a bongó, So instead of a "minuscule tweak" you should really care for a proper, tight assembly of the shells.

As I said, just my 2 cents, those Meinl shells seem to be pretty sturdy, but why risk something if it can easily avoided by bending those plates into shape I wonder.
At the end of the day, it is your decision.

[blavonski]

And i to think that your self made shell plates are a danger to your bongo's.
It will hurt your bongo's in the long run , but , it's your bongo's .... so .....

As far as the metal plate...what do you mean exactly by hurting the Bongos in the long run?
Someone else here also expressed similar concern and predicted imminent destruction. However, I'm to report that it's been over 3 months now of 5 days a week with at least an hour a day of playing them with the new plates and they have shown no signs of loosening at all. I 've only given the bolts a miscule tweak, twice in this time and the shells and repaired cracks are both fine.

I was the one who gave you the advice before, because there is the danger that the plate might grind its way into the wood
and thus cause harm in the shells. You might need to fasten the bolts connecting the macho and hembra shell again in a couple
of weeks, otherwise you will risk rattling a bongó, So instead of a "minuscule tweak" you should really care for a proper, tight assembly of the shells.

As I said, just my 2 cents, those Meinl shells seem to be pretty sturdy, but why risk something if it can easily avoided by bending those plates into shape I wonder.
At the end of the day, it is your decision.

hi Mike,
I think you miss-understood what I wrote.
In other words: Because of the two spring,(Lock) washers working to apply constant pressure in both directions between the nut and the plate; it requires very little if any successive tightening. Therefore, all I have had to do as far as tightening the bolts in these three months, has amounted to a minuscule tweak. That means the shells are sitting very snuggly together...no movement to rattle, shake or roll. And because there is no movement, there is, will be no grinding taking place to damage the shells. I check them at least once a week and have not needed to tighten at all. I believe it is safe for travel, but thanks for your concern none the less.

Good Vibrations,
Blavonski

[skinslapper]

[quote="skinslapper"]

And i to think that your self made shell plates are a danger to your bongo's.
It will hurt your bongo's in the long run , but , it's your bongo's .... so .....

I think that because there's quite some tension on just 2 small lines (where the shell plate meets the wood ).
The shell might crack if the bongo's bang into something or make a hard fall on one, or both the'se lines .
Not tomorrow or the day after but in the long run, as the built up tension there .....

But as i said before , its your bongo's ,so ......


And maybe my story is full of shit

[caballoballo]

Saludos, take the skins off and rub a candle where the skins meet the shell bearing edge. The candle wax will take care of the cracking noise you hear while tuning.

[blavonski]

Saludos, take the skins off and rub a candle where the skins meet the shell bearing edge. The candle wax will take care of the cracking noise you hear while tuning.

Saludos caballoballo,
Very Late reply, But I took that tip about the candle wax and, no more tuning sounds. Thanks!
Also, I did end up wrapping a peice of leather around the bottom Hembra rim to fill gap for a tighter fit and it worked beautifully. It was real tight at first, but after a few days the leather compressed where tight and filled out in the space evenly and the bottom hoops moves easily for adjustment with no gaps or dislacement when tuning.
Also, happy to report, that Bongo' is still going strong. However, I'm going to replace the center block to bring the drums closer together. And am considering making myself a pair from the Meinl shell design, which are slightly tapered, about 1cm and I like that feeling.

Good Vibrations,
Blavonski