Vergara Bongos

[Mr.Rumba]

What in your opinion(s) is a fair price to pay for these bongos? I am not selling them, I am thinking about buying them. Note the rim is bent on the macho side and the lugs are not original. Do you think these bongos are worth more in original condition.. or if they had Matthew Smith or other "restoration" hardware put on them?

[pcastag]

Are they solid shell or stave? Solid I'd say abut 400, stave maybe 250. Nice piece of history for sure!
PC

[RitmoBoricua]

To me the whole hardware is not original.
It seems to be Caly's (JCR) work.

[Mr.Rumba]

I am told that it is indeed the original hardware (except the lugs). Also that the metal used in the cuban rims actually bends or flexes with tuning, (hence the "bulging") by design or possibly effect of the low quality metal used in older drums.

[jorge]

The rim definitely was not designed to bend, hopefully that is not what the seller told you. Probably someone put too thick a skin on the macho and then tuned it too high for the metal to withstand the stress without bending. Also, it was probably made of mild steel or some other softer more malleable steel. If there are no hairline cracks, often a bent rim like that can be bent back without too much loss of strength. Then you need to be careful not to put too thick a skin on. If the rim really is soft steel and bends again with a reasonable skin on, you may need to get a new rim made out of better metal.

[Omelenko1]

Here is a Vergara that was sold about 2 yrs. ago. Vergara had his shop in La Habana in Calle Someruelos as shown in the sticker.

$(KGrHqQOKpcE6dvPB2ufBPi(ok0)Jg~~60_14.jpg (1.71 KiB) Viewed 8194 times

[RitmoBoricua]

I am told that it is indeed the original hardware (except the lugs). Also that the metal used in the cuban rims actually bends or flexes with tuning, (hence the "bulging") by design or possibly effect of the low quality metal used in older drums.

I am almost certain that is not the original hardware.
The hardware on the photo provided by Dario is totally
different than the bongo on you photo. I tell you man
that hardware has JCR written all over it. Remember
some of them old Vergaras originally were tack head
bongos and later on were retrofitted with hardware.

[Mr.Rumba]

Really interesting. Thank you for thoughts on this. I will ask the seller (again). I have also been told by reputable sources that "all JCR hardware is stamped JCR". Is that true? Also, I think Dario also has a set of Vergara that has Matthew Smith hardware. It wold be interesting to see a photo of those as well.

[pcastag]

Yeah, the ears on the hoops and the lug mounts are all welded on. All the old cuban bongos and congas I've seen and owned had rivets, I would definitely say the hardwae is newer. Does that affect the price? Not sure, I don't think people collect the old cuban drums for their originality, more for the shape and construction of the shell, not lik an old gretsch snare that loses 250 in value because it's missing the original throw or something. Then again the market for cuban congas and bongos is not very big, small group of players and collectors. Nice set did you find out if the shell is solid or if it's stave?
PC

[Mr.Rumba]

The shells are solid. The rims seem to be stainless steel to me but I am by no means an expert. If they were JCR there would be an insignia. Really I just would like to clear up the mustery as there are quite a few opinions. I agree the bottom line is how do they sound. However, for the huge dollars invested one wants to know what they are getting.

[RitmoBoricua]

Don't worry about the hardware been retrofitted.
You know that at least they are going to need new
crowns anyway.I see that Cuco on his Facebook page
called them cubano and not Vergaras. We know a
Vergara bongo is a cuban bongo no brainer, but a cuban
bongo is not necessarily a Vergara bongo. Was not this
the bongo that the maker was unknown? Ask Cuco about it.

[docarroyo]

The rims may be Vergara, both Vergara and Requena had welded examples produced as well as rivited. The bottoms may have been repaired by Cali, Cuco is very knowledgeble in these matters so the bottom rims may Original BUT repaired with yhe wielded lugs. Here some samples of wha I mean the firstis a Requena crown wielded, next is a Requena drum with a Vergara wielded crown, and last is a Vergara (in Need of a resto) with peened rivets which became more common and are used today by many makers. Remember to have a nice clean wield thats strong is hard to do, to peen a rivit not so hard.

[docarroyo]

Here is a set Vergara Bongo which were Tack head and Cali produced hardware for them. The bottom rims have a strong wield and will last forever but not the cleanest of wields. If theres any wielders on the forum they will understand what Im referring to. I know Cali well and have hung out in his shop the crowns and rims do not appear to be his work. Just my opinion.

[RitmoBoricua]

The crowns not definetely Vergara. The bottom there is a possibility that
could be original and later on welded. Doc's bongo bottoms welds are basically
the same shape as the bottom welds on the bongo in question. I am pretty sure
that JCR is the only one I have seen that shapes the bottom welds like that. That's
what makes me think that is Caly's work on that hardware. On Doc's bongo the
hardware is chromed, the hardware on the bongo in question is not chromed.
Also notice how the hardware on the Vergara that Dario posted is chromed too
as is the Vergara bongo crown Doc posted. Finally the bongo in question has no
Vergara style ears on the crown, they are "V" shape no "U" shape like traditional
Vergara's. At the end of the day what really matters are what seems to be solid
cuban mahogany shells, really hard to come by in good ol' USA.

By the way Doc how you like your Vergara bongo set?

I wonder if this thread needs to be moved to the bongo forum
since this is the conga forum.

[Omelenko1]

Los hermanos Vergara never made hardware, they made the solid Coaba bongo shells and then referred musicians to a welding shop in Calle Zanja (A Chinese district in Old Habana) where the hardware was made. Mongo, Flaco Padron and Alfredo Farach, a Cuban timbal maker, were all customers of Vergara and also went to the Calle Zanja welding shop to have the hardware made for their instruments. I don't claim to be an expert on Ismael and Pan Con Queso, eventhough I knew both and their sons, because I'm not PR or Venezuelan. I'm Cuban from la Habana and have talked to these older gentlemen that were clients of the Vergara brothers and they all relate the same.