Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

[Beatnik07]

I understand the vital importance of preserving tradition and cultural heritage. Not only that, I believe there is also a consideration of respect and appreciation for the legions of bongoceros who devoted their talent and life to wonderful salsa music.

Still, occasionally I wonder about playing bongos to other forms of music than salsa, and using different patterns than the martillo and its variations. Basically, I have come to suspect that bongos are lots more versatile instruments than commonly held.

Here are just a few videos posted by this bongos player addressing the issue. There are more such videos: if you find yourself in an "exploring mood" they can be found at:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RomanPercussi ... ery=bongos

They might be of interest for the younger or would-be bongoceros as offering added options and variety.

[Thomas Altmann]

Hi Beatnik,

Basically, I have come to suspect that bongos are lots more versatile instruments than commonly held.

you're absolutely right, and that doesn't only apply to the bongos. However, there's nothing revolutionary about it. It has been done for decades. Back in my time, I used to listen to people like Ralph McDonald or to Paulinho DaCosta, especially his later records on Pablo. Or check out Lenny Castro on the Casino Lights record (Montreux 1981), the things he does behind Al Jarreau and Randy Crawford. Now today this style of music may sound back-dated, even to me; but these are good examples of how to work in the backbeat world. What the percussionist does on your third video is just one way to handle it. Note he is re-orchestrating a drum set groove.

I find that bongos often fit pop and funk music better than congas, for instance.

As to the Bossa Nova video, you may well realize how the martillo and its variations are a splendid foundation for anything you are going to play in whatever style of music. Because what he plays here is nothing else but the martillo, even with typical variations. I would play that only if the producer or bandleader wants me to do it. It doesn't really sound like a Bossa Nova anymore, it's something else. But it's well done by the guy. Really recordable.

The Bolero is a Cuban genre, and moreover it is the kind of music for which the martillo was originally invented. Consequently, you hear your percussionist play - a martillo! The variations that you play in a Bolero come from a slightly different repertory than in Son Montuno. Although the playing on this video is really clean, I suggest you check out the Cuban (or Nuyorican) bongoceros first. That's where you learn how to play a Bolero the way it should be. Finally you may come up with some more and better variations than this man. But again: accurate work! Good sound, good time ...

Greetings,
Thomas

[Beatnik07]

Hi Beatnik,

Basically, I have come to suspect that bongos are lots more versatile instruments than commonly held.

you're absolutely right, and that doesn't only apply to the bongos. However, there's nothing revolutionary about it. It has been done for decades. Back in my time, I used to listen to people like Ralph McDonald or to Paulinho DaCosta, especially his later records on Pablo. Or check out Lenny Castro on the Casino Lights record (Montreux 1981), the things he does behind Al Jarreau and Randy Crawford. Now today this style of music may sound back-dated, even to me; but these are good examples of how to work in the backbeat world. What the percussionist does on your third video is just one way to handle it. Note he is re-orchestrating a drum set groove.

I find that bongos often fit pop and funk music better than congas, for instance.

As to the Bossa Nova video, you may well realize how the martillo and its variations are a splendid foundation for anything you are going to play in whatever style of music. Because what he plays here is nothing else but the martillo, even with typical variations. I would play that only if the producer or bandleader wants me to do it. It doesn't really sound like a Bossa Nova anymore, it's something else. But it's well done by the guy. Really recordable.

The Bolero is a Cuban genre, and moreover it is the kind of music for which the martillo was originally invented. Consequently, you hear your percussionist play - a martillo! The variations that you play in a Bolero come from a slightly different repertory than in Son Montuno. Although the playing on this video is really clean, I suggest you check out the Cuban (or Nuyorican) bongoceros first. That's where you learn how to play a Bolero the way it should be. Finally you may come up with some more and better variations than this man. But again: accurate work! Good sound, good time ...

Greetings,
Thomas

Thanks Thomas !

May I ask what you mean by: "What the percussionist does on your third video is just one way to handle it. Note he is re-orchestrating a drum set groove." ?

[Chtimulato]

May I ask what you mean by: "What the percussionist does on your third video is just one way to handle it. Note he is re-orchestrating a drum set groove." ?

Because he's just playing a "classic" drum(set) pattern, which can also be heard on several "ethnical" rhythms with hand drums.

It also sounds close to the "standard" conga pattern played in soul, funk and rhythm and blues by Bobbye Hall, Ralph McDonald and many others. You just need to listen to the Temptations, Marvin Gaye and all the artists of this golden era.

[Thomas Altmann]

Exactly!

If you take just the bare rhythmic line, the average set drummer would play all the notes on the bass drum, except the backbeats (2 & 4). If the drummer decides not to play anything but, let's say, a disco-type "four on the floor" beat instead, then the remaining strokes are left over for the percussionist. He may, however, choose to re-arrange the sound pitches according to the specific instrument that he selected for the tune, and that's what the guy in the video did: He moved some of the bass drum notes over to the bongo macho, which represents a completely different sound, but sounds better on his own instrument - the bongos. He played the high pitched "click" notes on the backbeats, thus reinforcing the set drummer's snare drum, without clashing with it's sound range. Thats fine, but you need a pretty consistent sound to do this, because the backbeat in Rock and Funk music functions like an anchor, almost like the clave in Latin music, and a set drummer works hard to get the sound and time feel of his backbeat consistent. You would not want to jeopardize his efforts.

I found another interesting recording for you. It comes from the Brazilian sphere, a João Bosco composition with the title "Dois pra lá, dois pra cá", sung by the incomparable Elis Regina. It sounds like a samba canção to me, which is often similar to, or compatible with, a Cuban bolero. However, the percussionist's bongo accompaniment is not at all based on the martillo, but sounding fantastic anyway. I love this number, and I love Elis. Also, the background choir is beautifully arranged. Check it out: https://youtu.be/Hgh0_acaBcw.

Thomas

P.S.: I just learned that the bongos on this track were played by Paulinho Braga, who used to be the regular set drummer of her trio, with Luisão on bass and (her husband) Cesar Camargo Mariano on piano. Great job!

P.P.S.: Here's an article referring to the song: https://musicaemprosa.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/dois-pra-la-dois-pra-ca-um-bolero-classico-de-aldir-blanc/.

[scavard]

I have always enjoyed all the latin music, especially salsa and latin jazz. That is why I got into congas and bongo in the first place. But as I don't have anyone to play those styles with in my region on regular basis, in the spare time I play the percussion in a pop rock band and try to practice the traditional stuff on my own.

From my experience, in a band like this, bongo works well when congas don't and vice versa. Knowing that, I can always easily play and react to a lot of things that are going on. Of course, sometimes I just have to switch to a shaker or a tambourine. It's still a lot of fun and I enjoy it very much, even though percussion is not the base of this genre.

Anyway, I have a friend who regularly plays with a house/trance DJ on bongo and congas. I know they practice whole sets together and once I saw a part of their show and it was pretty amazing. He is very talented, sounds great and gives the show so much energy!

[Beatnik07]

Thanks Chtimulato and Thomas for replying to my question about re-orchestrating !!

[Chtimulato]

About this "standard" conga (and bongó) pattern, I've got a present for you, guys :



This tune lasts 14 minutes and is from 1971. The conguero is called Erroll "Crusher" Bennett. As you can see/hear, with all due respect, Will Roman didn't invent anything.

[Beatnik07]

Oops, duplicate ....

[Beatnik07]

Here is a track I use these days for my bongos practice and for martillo variations practice. Liz Torres is from Puerto Rico.
I just drop a bit the BPM with the player (about 10-15%), as I am not yet sufficiently proficient at fast tempos. Of course this track is not "Salsa" per se, but I like it and find that playing/practicing on music one likes is a huge motivator for practice ....




On a different (but quite related) subject, here below is a 1993 video of Ricardo Villalobos playing bongos live during a live electronic set. Villalobos is one of the most sophisticated, proficient and respected producers of electronic dance music (although not so well known in mainstream dance music).

Apparently bongos were an early passion of Villalobos.

I do not post this to validate or endorse the technical skills of Villalobos bongos playing (which probably may not be impressive for the experienced and accomplished bongoceros on this forum), but to illustrate that bongos can be and are loved in many different and diverse environments, and by all kinds of musicians.

[Thomas Altmann]

Thats fine, but you need a pretty consistent sound to do this, because the backbeat in Rock and Funk music functions like an anchor, almost like the clave in Latin music, and a set drummer works hard to get the sound and time feel of his backbeat consistent. You would not want to jeopardize his efforts.

I'm quoting myself here, because I want to modify this statement a bit. Sound consistency is a big asset, no question about it. However, being human, we will never sound exactly the same each turn - this is especially true of hand drums. But we can strive for consistency, and with time and practice we'll get as close to it as possible.

The importance of the backbeat in Funk, Rock, Soul, Gospel music (which is probably the best school to learn it), and even in Jazz, cannot be overstated. But in most cases it is the set drummer who takes care of it by providing a consistent snare drum sound. Also in most cases with this type of music, the percussion part is mixed down in balance. So if your high pitched bongo sound is not always perfect, it will probably vanish behind the snare drum.

More than once I've been called to a studio session to play a percussion part behind a completely machine-generated backing track for some singer. They wanted a "human touch" to season the plastic waste they had produced!

Thomas

[Beatnik07]

Thats fine, but you need a pretty consistent sound to do this, because the backbeat in Rock and Funk music functions like an anchor, almost like the clave in Latin music, and a set drummer works hard to get the sound and time feel of his backbeat consistent. You would not want to jeopardize his efforts.

I'm quoting myself here, because I want to modify this statement a bit. Sound consistency is a big asset, no question about it. However, being human, we will never sound exactly the same each turn - this is especially true of hand drums. But we can strive for consistency, and with time and practice we'll get as close to it as possible.

The importance of the backbeat in Funk, Rock, Soul, Gospel music (which is probably the best school to learn it), and even in Jazz, cannot be overstated. But in most cases it is the set drummer who takes care of it by providing a consistent snare drum sound. Also in most cases with this type of music, the percussion part is mixed down in balance. So if your high pitched bongo sound is not always perfect, it will probably vanish behind the snare drum.

More than once I've been called to a studio session to play a percussion part behind a completely machine-generated backing track for some singer. They wanted a "human touch" to season the plastic waste they had produced!

Thomas

Thanks Thomas !
Here a a few rock songs with bongos. Would you care to comment on any of the bongos playing in these ?

[Thomas Altmann]

Hi Beatnik,

Would you care to comment on any of the bongos playing in these ?

You mean to say I should listen to the BEASTIE BOYS?!



Sure I will. Just give me some time, please.

I don't have to listen to the America song. I know it fairly well, because I was like in my 11th grade in school at the time, and we used to listen a lot to American folk music and its derivates, hung out in parks with guitars and bongos, beer and joints. The bongo part here sounds like you had a pop musician supplying a bongo sound without knowing anything about the instrument. Maybe he was told to play like that, but probably he didn't know any better. For me it's hard to figure out what I might have played in the percussionist's place, because to me the track is simply what it is; I absorbed it at a time when I wasn't differentiating or analyzing music a lot. I was about 17 or 18 years old and listen to what my folks were listening to, because it was just hip at that time, and that's it. As happens often, today I don't know what I ever liked about the song.

Early in my modest career, I had a studio job for Eva-Maria Hagen, a German singer and actress (mother of Nina Hagen). I was hired to play congas for one track. Trained to play congas in the "right" way, I didn't really hit what that particular song needed. Her ex-partner Wolf Biermann was in the studio. He was a big talker, and he functioned as a co-producer. He told me, "why don't you play as if you couldn't play at all?" I then tried to play as if I had never touched the instrument before, and the result made it to the record.

Greetings,
Thomas

[Chtimulato]

Early in my modest career, I had a studio job for Eva-Maria Hagen, a German singer and actress (mother of Nina Hagen). I was hired to play congas for one track. Trained to play congas in the "right" way, I didn't really hit what that particular song needed. Her ex-partner Wolf Biermann was in the studio. He was a big talker, and he functioned as a co-producer. He told me, "why don't you play as if you couldn't play at all?" I then tried to play as if I had never touched the instrument before, and the result made it to the record.

Great anecdote, Thomas. I happen to know Wolf Bierman (a German teacher played us some songs of him as I was at the "Gymnasium") and Nina Hagen, whom I discovered as a student. I've got LPs of both. And a book of Biermann too.

[Thomas Altmann]

Hi Chtimulato,

i have to admit I've never been a big fan of political protest songs. Politics is left- and music is right-brainy, and I feel they rarely go together well. And Nina Hagen - she is by one year younger than I; but I always regarded Punk more as a social phenomenon. I like music that grooves, swings, and has some finesse, and I still do. Punk was like the contrary. When Nina Hagen became successful, I had already been bitten by the Latin-bug. I've never been part of the Punk movement. Right away, I could name you maybe a dozen of Pop- and Rock bands that I like, Soul and Funk not even included, so please don't think I despise everything that's not Jazz or Latin music.

Yes, as a musician you often run into bizarre situations. I wonder whether that could also have happened to me in a place like New York (apart from the fact that there would be at least 10 other percussionists who would get the call before me). But I read sone reports of famous American studio drummers like Jeff Porcaro (in the Modern Drummer magazine) which suggest that you must be ready for all kinds of funny stuff, anywhere. And the longer you are active, the more stories you can tell. I believe that a musician experiences more in each single year than the average 9-5 employee in 45 years. And that's also great - if you are open enough.

Thomas