Silence

[Thomas Altmann]

Dear Congaplace members,

as many of you, I too have noticed the long silence on this board. While I cannot speak for others and am therefore unable to tell the reason(s), I will speak for myself.

1. - I keep on checking the forum for new messages each time after going through my e-mails, which is every day.

2. I can't really say something to just any question coming up. If the question is for some teachers some place abroad and I don't know of any, I don't respond. If I don't have a specific bongo method nor its audio supplement, I can't help it. And this may refer to other members as well. It doesn't have to be carelessness or disrespect if no one speaks up. @ Dave Crowder: I did listen to some of your recordings, and I found them well produced. If I had your intonation abilities, I would probably have more fun practicing songs. However, for some reason I would not spend time on such a project, and I cannot exactly tell why; so I chose not to post any comment at all. This should be acceptable.

3. I am up to something totally different. I have been practicing congas extensively during the summer. But I am working towards a goal I cannot discuss with anyone: I was trying to expand my personal vocabulary in order to build my own style or voice. I even created about a dozen of new rhythms or own variations of existing rhythm patterns. I am not yet where I want to be, and maybe I have to modify my goals a bit. Anyway, I am deeply engaged in an artistic or creative process which is so personal that by its intimate nature nobody could or should help me. So I do not have any questions to the forum myself (at the moment).

So, as far as I am concerned, Congaplace is still there, and I am ready to become involved whenever I feel addressed. However, it is probably safe to say that Facebook has taken over a lot of correspondence that formerly took place in newsgroups like this. As I said elsewhere, I'm not inside that scene. But FB is there, and I suppose that that's where a lot more is happening.

Another aspect I cannot leave unmentioned is that eery nightmare in Ukraine, which definitely feels like being beamed back hundred years ago by some misconstructed time machine. If it won't stop as irrationally as it begun, we might all end up acting in the ultimate horror movie to become reality. So in the face of this dizzying threat, even hardcore congueros may find their focus temporarily deflected ...

Best wishes to everybody,
Thomas

[Greensail]

I hear you Thomas. I check in semi regularly and am always happy to see a new post, which , as you note, is increasingly rare. I agree with you that most likely Facebook has taken much participation away from this forum. Furthermore, I am with you in my disinterest in getting involved in Facebook mostly because of the personal information they seek in order to sign up.

One thing you mentioned about doing your own thing creating some unique rhythms caught my attention. I spent the summer in the Caribbean away from my band mates. Somewhat painful to leave my friends but have forged some inroads into the music scene there. It is a very different culture and vibe than I am familiar with but of course, that is the attraction. Gradually beginning to get a feel. So very intriguing to learn, not so much new or foreign rhythms but that different"feel" or vibe.

Additionally as I have also played a lot by myself, I have put significant emphasis on creating various melodies with thedrums. I guess making up a new rhythm but in my head it was more creating a song. Again as you say, expanding my vocabulary and language. Maybe perhaps I am able to incorporate with something I am playing with others which I think is a worthwhile goal. But but at the same, it doesn't really matter as it is mostly for my personal enjoyment (often maybe to the chagrin of my very tolerant spouse) .
Hope to see future posts here from the knowledgeable members. Regards.

[Juaort]

Hi Thomas and Greensail. Hope you fellas are doing well. I will confirm that the members of this forum have gone to either FB or Instagram. The only reason I have a FB account is cause my wife signed us up as another way to keep in touch with our granddaughter and some friends and family members. As you both stated I wasn’t interested in having a FB page. I will confess that I have joined a few of the groups on there out of curiosity and it hasn’t been to bad. As far as the personal info, you don’t have to be accurate, but in the ballpark sort of speak. I’ve seen many of the members from this forum on there.

I got back into playing Bongo and Congas in the last 4-5 years after a hiatus of over 20yrs! It’s embarrassing when I say it and speak about it. Life and career I guess had a lot to do with that. I learning to read music as well as technic with a gut from Brooklyn. He was a Latin percussionist, but made a living as a drummer. “Santi” was his nickname. I’m currently looking to see If I can continue to do that here in North Carolina. When we lived in NYC I had the pick of the litter. Even almost attending Boys Harbor in Spanish Harlem at one point. It was just to far to travel by train to get there.

I really enjoying playing again, even though I’m not playing in a band or anything like that. But it’s been a great way to relax, learn and experiment. I’ve shared pics and a few stories in this forum. I’ve always enjoyed this forum and I’ll continue to check in from time to time.

I have a standing offer from the church we visit to join their worship and praise band. Their super solid, but I’m not sure that a Salsero has much to contribute to a W&P group lol. What do you guys think?

[Thomas Altmann]

Hi Greensail & Juaort,

great to hear from you. First of all let me remark that I do not criticize anybody for being in Facebook (or Instagram or whatever) or not. I have been spying into FB from time to time, and while the personal-data-politics is certainly questionable (to say the least), a great deal of my personal aversion comes from the specific style of communication that is shaped there. It's my personal issue, nothing more.

@ Juaort: Nice to know some of your personal biography. If you have the opportunity to play in a band that wants you, and you think you could enjoy it for whatever reason, do it. However, I believe that playing any kind of religious music will require at least some respect and openness from you. Moreover, a lot of the intensity that is commonly appreciated (if not demanded), especially in gospel music, gets its nourishment from some kind of religious passion. If you don't have that, then chances are that one day something inside yourself will oppose to this music and you just quit.

@ Greensail: Whatever made you stay in the Caribbean (where?), you seem to get the best out of it. I somehow remember that you are not really a youngster anymore, so it's even more remarkable that you are open enough to embrace a new and different feel. I am approaching my 68th birthday this November, and I am definitely less inclined to learn yet another new style of music. I feel I have played enough different kinds of music in my life; now it's finally time to resume all my influences and create something from inside myself.

Melodies, yeah - I come to think that in music there's no rhythm without melody and no melody without rhythm. The link between both is phrasing. I've been practicing a lot on four congas, so there was a great deal of melodic thinking involved as well. I could not separate melody from rhythm there.

The social and political developments that have become manifest since Corona, have made me resign from performing for an indefinite period of time. Music and drumming has always been a "path" for me, in addition to being a profession and a source of joy. So now, back on my own, I am focusing on refining my language, and also on exploring the nature of time, as opposed to learning and rehearsing songs, practice reading and travelling around like mad.

I've always been a group player in the first place. I know that, no matter how much I progress in my practice chamber, the deciding artistic factor would be, how do I fit in an ensemble context, or rather in a variety of settings? What of the things I did would be useful in which situation? What about dynamics? I have heard ridiculous results of drummers who had spent most of their time practicing alone and then finally tried to join a band! Or would I have to write my own music and form my own band? Will I ever return to the stage at all? All this is subject to an uncertain future ...

Greetings,
Thomas

[Greensail]

Thomas & Juaort, Nice to know there are a couple of us here. Sounds like we all have something in common. I agree with you about FB, no malice, just not my thing i guess.

Actually Thomas, I am 66. The island is Nevis, a tiny place, population about 11,000, but interesting West Indian culture and really beautiful, genuine and caring people. Traveled there frequently over the years, bought a property, built a small cottage, got waylaid by the pandemic for a couple years, but the heart says it is the place for me. For a very small place, they have a fairly active music scene. Not really afro Cuban but....more than their fair share of talented musicians. Got in with a few people that tend towards a jazz feel. Also a couple of really good kit drummers who have taught me a few things and helped with some "local" rhythms. And a gentleman of our age whom I have yet to find an instrument he cannot play with ease (except for trumpet which he says is his forte) Have had a couple really good grooves with him on keyboards.

Juaort - music and percussion is pretty big in the churches there. I've never participated but have checked out several. Certainly however, from my experience, it would not be too difficult to add something soft & simple and of course, with respect.

I'm back in the US now (sadly but things to deal with, I'm still working, and including a huge amount of cleanup following the hurricane but fortunately I still have a house) Interestingly, this evening a jazz tune was playing and a very subtle rhythm caught my attention. Next thing I know, I'm on the drums getting the feel and soon, I'm improvising trying to make it more melodic with some success. Perhaps it's simply a different focus for me rather than any fundamental difference. Regardless, I'm enjoying the experimentation.

As an aside re: playing out. I'm going to play a 4 hr gig this Saturday with my old mates with significant concern that I can remember what I need to play, the breaks, etc. I'm thinking i can always do a simple boom chick (I'm the drummer, no kit) or just maybe I resort to closing my eyes and go for it.

Nice to correspond. Kind regards.

[windhorse]

I keep on checking the forum for new messages each time after going through my e-mails, which is every day.

Thanks for breaking the silence Thomas. And good to hear from a few others breaking the silence as well.

I did listen to some of your recordings, and I found them well produced.

Again, thanks. A few weeks ago, I had a video conference with Raymundo G. who taught me many of the Orisha songs I learned. I asked him what he thought of the Ochun project and expected to find out some specifics on timing and structure, but his only comment was, "Watch doing harmonies on Orisha songs! Go ahead and harmonize all you want over rumba songs, but not Orishas!" He seemed adamant, so that's the end of singing harmonies to Orishas. These have been exercises where I've learned and relearned caja parts and have been working on "finding" my voice. Each one of these has been its own invaluable learning experience. I realize that I'm putting myself out there like a fool to be laughed at by initiates and those who have grown up in the tradition. But, for me it isn't unfamiliar territory playing the fool. I've always been impetuous, jumping into the unusual and the interesting with both feet. All of the songs I chose to make into video projects were less common ones that made them especially fun to work on due to their complexity and beauty. I am now working on a Yambu song about Lazaro Galarraga who is the main reason that I sing. It's in Spanish and honors the feeling I got from standing next to him as he sang, and how it inspired me to sing. A friend of mine asked yesterday, "What are you going to do with those videos?" My answer, "nothing". I don't monetize any of my music videos. It's all about the exercise itself. Getting it honed and as sharp as I can make it is, and has always been, the goal.

I do not have any questions to the forum myself (at the moment).
But FB is there, and I suppose that that's where a lot more is happening.

Yes, FB is busy. As someone alluded to, the format here lends itself to researching a topic so much better. And of course FB is there to make money off of you. But, I get to see what most of my friends are up to. And almost shocked this forum is still up! Kudos to the folks responsible!

Another aspect I cannot leave unmentioned is that eery nightmare in Ukraine

Yes. it is a nightmare. Another is that last US president. Egomania is dangerous in the hands of powerful dictators.
All the best to everyone!

[Thomas Altmann]

Hi windhorse,

your explanations confirmed my impression of your project. I'm glad that your self-assessment is that relaxed. To me, the aspect of singing orisha songs that interests me, is what gives them the quality or the potential to foster possession trance - a certain kind of intensity. The material itself is already evocative, but without a doubt, the intentionality of the singer also has a lot to do with it. Anyway, I am miles away from that ideal myself. I guess I'm just a drummer, that's it.

... but his only comment was, "Watch doing harmonies on Orisha songs! Go ahead and harmonize all you want over rumba songs, but not Orishas!"

... To be taken with two grains of salt ... While in fact Lukumí songs have traditionally been conceived as unison melodies, cultural productions in Cuba have often made use of a second part or voice in the coro (Merceditas Valdés etc.). And Cuban bands like Mezcla or Síntesis have gone a lot further. It depends on what you are aiming at. At a bembé, I would not try to turn the songs into art music in the European sense. But at those ceremonies, the choir is made up of ritual participants, and their singing skills are limited, to say the least; would your friend also demand that you have to sing the coros in the authentic "wrong-but-strong" style?

I remember doubling the coro melody in the bass on one of the toques I attended in Havana in 2005. I did it because an octave up would have been to high for me. Javielito was the akpwón, and he smiled, so I suppose he liked it. Maybe he appreciated my support; a solo singer has a harder job when the responding choir is just so out of tune.

Greetings,
Thomas

[vxla]

[..] but his only comment was, "Watch doing harmonies on Orisha songs! Go ahead and harmonize all you want over rumba songs, but not Orishas!" He seemed adamant, so that's the end of singing harmonies to Orishas.

Wow, this is truly the worst thing I've ever heard.

[martingoodson]

Dear Congaplace members,

as many of you, I too have noticed the long silence on this board. While I cannot speak for others and am therefore unable to tell the reason(s), I will speak for myself.

I think one of the things that makes this forum prevent new activity is the stupid design of the pinned topics at the top of the page. A new user will take one look at that and think the last posts on the forum were from 2012 and 2013. It looks dead for the last 10 years!.

Who moderates the forum? Because by removing the pinned posts the forums will immediately look more active and interesting.

[windhorse]

Wow, this is truly the worst thing I've ever heard.

I talked with my Babalawo friend who knows Rey and he said. "That's just Rey's point of view, though you don't hear harmonies at Tambors, they often do octaves." This agrees with what Thomas said above. Mike also said that several performances like this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/87tobxduleisoi6/SextoSentidoElleggua.mp4?dl=0 have been done with beautiful harmonies. I think Rey's saying "as a gringo, you might want to tone it down."
Not to worry. It doesn't mean I won't still do them around friends.

[vxla]

I talked with my Babalawo friend who knows Rey and he said. "That's just Rey's point of view, though you don't hear harmonies at Tambors, they often do octaves." This agrees with what Thomas said above. Mike also said that several performances like this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/87tobxduleiso ... a.mp4?dl=0 have been done with beautiful harmonies. I think Rey's saying "as a gringo, you might want to tone it down."

I absolutely harmonize when it makes sense if I'm at a fundamento or guiro. The link you posted, however, is an actual choral group that planned their harmonies and counterpoint; that's not really representative of what happens at a drum.

[martingoodson]

Join me - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9997#p89007

[Chtimulato]

Hello everybody.

I’m still there too.

@ Thomas

1. I keep on checking the forum for new messages each time after going through my e-mails, which is every day.

2. I can't really say something to just any question coming up. If the question is for some teachers some place abroad and I don't know of any, I don't respond. If I don't have a specific bongo method nor its audio supplement, I can't help it. And this may refer to other members as well. It doesn't have to be carelessness or disrespect if no one speaks up. […] So, as far as I am concerned, Congaplace is still there, and I am ready to become involved whenever I feel addressed.

Same with me. I have an unfortunate trend to procrastinate : I’m often too busy to answer at the moment, and think « I’ll do this this evening », which I then forget…
And I don’t comment if I don’t have any answer, it would be useless...


@ Greensail

I hear you Thomas. I check in semi regularly and am always happy to see a new post, which , as you note, is increasingly rare

Maybe many of us got the feeling "everything has been already said" and just need to browse the forum if they have any question. I don't really know, it's just an assumption, an attempt of an explanation. Most members moved to Facebook indeed.


@ Juaort

[...] I’m currently looking to see If I can continue to do that here in North Carolina.

I believe Johnny Conga lives in North Carolina too. He gives online and «physical» lessons. He is forum member here, and also on Facebook and YouTube. And you can’t go wrong with him, he’s a master.

I have a standing offer from the church we visit to join their worship and praise band. Their super solid, but I’m not sure that a Salsero has much to contribute to a W&P group lol. What do you guys think?

It gives you the oportunity to play. Use it !;)

However, it is probably safe to say that Facebook has taken over a lot of correspondence that formerly took place in newsgroups like this. As I said elsewhere, I'm not inside that scene. But FB is there, and I suppose that that's where a lot more is happening.

 

I agree with you that most likely Facebook has taken much participation away from this forum. Furthermore, I am with you in my disinterest in getting involved in Facebook mostly because of the personal information they seek in order to sign up.

Re:Facebook. I use it as communication tool. Since I know it owns my data (you have to accept it when you create your account), I post the «union minimum» about my personal data, as little as possible. Facebook doesn’t know my kids’ name, what I have cooked yesterday, nor where I spent my last holidays if I don’t want that to be public.
I use it as a personal tool (it allows me to communicate with friends or relatives who live at the other end of the world) and I’m also in several groups attended or run by several Congaplace members. I’m even admin in one group, and moderator in another one.
It’s useful to post videos for instance. You can either post a link, or «embed» the video in your publication. This being said, I don’t force anybody to use it, and I understand and admit your reluctance. As I said, Facebook knows as little as possible about me.

Stay safe, everybody.