urine change

[montezuma]

Saludos!
It is really confusing for me to ask this question. Sometimes after long and hard (without microphone) concert my urine is changing. It has a dark red color or even bronze. It seems to happen especially when I play in clubs wher is hot. I would bu greatful for the answer. ???

[untaltumbador]

Montezuma
I don't like what I read from you, no disrespect intended, your health is not an issue for speculation. If I were you, I would collect a sample of your urine the next time this happens and have it analyze by a medical lab.

Take care, bro!

[yoni]

Hi all,

Change in urine color can happen after playing too hard too long, as too many red blood cells get broken while traveling through hands & fingers and are later expelled through the urine.

Please see my post here in "Open Discussion" in "anemia from bongo playing" for more info.

Worthwhile to know!

all the best,
yoni



Edited By yoni on 1108422238

[zaragemca]

Montezuma, you need to place a microphone in the congas when playing with bands,( otherwise you are killing yourself competing with amplifiers and P.A. equipments),loosing of red cells could be replace with diet, resting,( the same for the people which donate bloods, have injuries,etc.),it used to happened to percussionists long time ago in Cuba,but at that time there were not mics,now the 'gears' are available.But notbody died of it, congeros, bongoceros,and bataleros, are known to live up to the 80's,(the drinking have killed most of them).



Edited By zaragemca on 1108426749

[yoni]

Hi Zaragemca!

Yup, Montezuma, better get yourself miked. Hurting the hands is what many see as the main problem with playing hard, but killing the blood cells (and thus yourself, like Zaragemca said) is much worse still, making hand drums the most potentially dangerous instruments there are.

Yonatan Bar Rashi

[montezuma]

THANKS FOR REPLAYS!!!
For "untaltumbador" - I had it analyzed by a medical lab and I consulting the results with a few doctors. But they don't know what it is, they ask me to go to any other specialist (so I have done), which ask me to make more difficult analysis (I know you don't want to know any more details!). But nothing dangerouse occure durning those analysis. I wirtte to this forum becouse I heard that many percussionists has the same problems. Unfortenetlly most of them don't want to speak about it. My urine change only when I'm playing my congas too hard and when I loos to many water. What should I do? Stop playing? Could it be dangerous for me health?
Saludos

[Juzzi]

Hello Montezuma.
I've heard that it has happened to many others as well. I heard that Anga had the same problem when he started in Irakere. He wasn't very strong at the time. I believe it will go away with time.

-J

[yoni]

Hi Montezuma,

It can be dangerous to health and can even cause anemia (weakened bloodstream) if you REALLY overdo it, but it doesn't HAVE to be dangerous.

Stop playing so hard for so long, to begin with, whether you are miked or not.

It has happened sometimes to me also. You don't need to stop playing, but to MAKE SURE you are miked if in a loud group, and again, not to play so hard for so long.
If they can't mike you or can't lower their volume, it's just not worth it.

I played that way a long time and would get bruised, swollen hands, dark urine and feel tired the next day - and when I later learned about this, I think the tiredness came from blood loss more than from anything else.

You should lighten up your playing some and save the hard stuff for accents and solos.

If you rest between hard gigs it is good - to let the body build up more red blood cells again. Also good to eat high-protein foods around these times (I like fish and other seafood) to help strengthen the bloodstream and body.

When playing slaps try to use more snap and less power, it will give a sharper sound and probably save some red blood cells, too.

Let's face it, congas evolved from big African hand drums like the pan logo, designed - in part - for sending long distance messages through the bush. Probably lots of volume and power is/was needed to cut through tropic forest. Being big and strong might help for health of conga players.

Take a player like Johnny Conga, (though there are few like him, I think) - he's in his 50's and still going strong. And he probably blew like a hurricane for many years already. From what I read, I think Johnny is kind of big and very strong. Also Ray Barretto, also big, strong - saw him playing when he was in his late 60's - he surely didn't play hard like he did when in his 20's, 30's and each of his congas was well-miked, but he seemed just fine. On the other hand I've also met some old masters in the Caribbean who could hardly play at all anymore, they were weakened, maybe had spent too long playing too hard, maybe other problems, too, like drinking, as Zaragemca mentioned.

You must take good care of your health as a conguero!

As for me, I'm a small "desert rat" and have switched mainly to darbuka (adapting to the desert, I guess). That drum has a lighter skin and is easier on the hands (So is playing sideways, maybe, as it's not "anti-gravity" - though playing in that position was really weird for me at first).

At age 45 I still play congas, and very hard SOMETIMES, but it is definitely the instrument with most potential danger - no - bongos are even moreso - played in the traditional position (as I do) they are held low, forcing more blood downward, swelling hands if played that way too long, and thus giving higher chance of breaking blood cells, especially with the macho tuned tight and hard, to give it the nice sharp sound. Maybe this is why the bongocero is often called the bongo/bell player - he must switch off to the bell to give hands (and blood) a rest.

Maybe all this is why they invented the drum stick!

But I'll play congas as long as I can, I love congas and won't stop if I can help it - just don't overdo it anymore with the power.

Maybe too much of anything can be dangerous, but no need to fear, really, just rest, eat well and play at a softer level if you have problems.

All the best,
yoni



Edited By yoni on 1108490990

[GuruPimpi]

Montezuma!

Many times when I played on house parties my urine was turning it's colour to darker, even brownish colour. Those clubs were hot, I was sweating like animal and many times playing without mic, so i explained it to my self (similar change of urine i noticed in the summer when i was doing something (cycling, working...) and not drinking water. ! I think that's the catch- loosing and lack of liquid. I don't use things like gatorade and other isotonic drinks, cause i feel that a lot of water (not cold and not with ice - it makes you sweat more) mixed with some orange juice is the best for me!

Montezuma, just drink a lot of water and a mic!

Groove on with a healthy kidneys!!!

Primoz

[untaltumbador]

Saludos! Montezuma, it is good to know that you are OK. I want to apologize for my initial reaction to your post. It all has to do with the fact that I never heard any musician mentioning a similar occurrence. Thank you for not taking it the wrong way. I remain somewhat embarrassed.

Untal




Edited By untaltumbador on 1108519304

[JohnnyConga]

Well Im not a big guy, Im 5 feet 8 inches and weigh about 165. I have always been a strong player. In my day there weren't microphones yet, so we had to play very hard. I am very active so I am still at my peak. I am 56 years old and still play with a lot of energy. Urine in the blood is from what I believe is "straining your kidneys". it has happened to me twice in my career. But not in over 30 years of playing, since then.

I want to WELCOME all the Newbies(Grasshoppers) here, there is a lot to learn............Peace...."JC" Johnny Conga.... :;):

[yoni]

Hi Johnny,

Don't know why I thought you're "kind of big", you sure must be strong, though, be it natural, developed or both. I hope you'll be in peak form for many years to come. Maybe straining the kidneys has also to do with not drinking enough water while sweating hard on a show, like Gurupimpi wrote.

Anyway if you type the phrase "anemia from bongo playing" into a search engine, some articles come up and explain it better than I can.

All the best
yoni



Edited By yoni on 1108547497

[montezuma]

Hola!
Thank's my "doctors"! I now I feel much better. The doctors wich I use to visit, don't see any coincidence between conga playing and urine (most of them don't know what conga or bongo is). Now - untaltumbador - thank you for your interest. I don't feel resentful. I think that this forum is a perfect place to solve all problems which has something to do with the conga, bongo, timbales etc, and with the player health. Now - GuruPimpi - thanks a lot for your advices. I used to do so (I mean drinking the wather). Now, before, and durning the hard gig, I drink about 1,5 or even 2 litre wather. It seems to work. Naturally I have other problems (toilet every 15 minutes!). Thanks a lot for your help!!!

[GuruPimpi]

Montezuma: we tend to drink less water than we should, all the drinks with bubbles are not that good for our internal organs (unlike mineral natural sparkling water), even when you'll drink more your blatter will adopt so you won't have to go pee after 15 min

Johnny: I'll write you back as soon as I'll 15 min when i get home...

Again, this forum is marvellous thing that i got hooked on!

Groove on!

Primoz

[Jongo]

My former conga instructor arned me that this could happen. He was telling me that when he played really intense shows afterwards from time to time his urine would have a red tint to it. He is not a big guy but actually a slim strong wiry guy. His explanantion was that it was the length of time that he was playing and the intensity. Which would make sense because he probably got dehydrated. I don't think the company he was performing with were that concerned about their percussionists so I don't think they got much water or breaks.